What can we do to remove attachment to the household life and permanently ordain as a monk? I do want to ordain one day if I become more knowledgeable about the scriptures and have enough support.
At first, I thought as a lay person, I might be able to do more dana, but I would also be able to do dana even if I ordain as a monk.
I think one of the most important thing is to have places where I could stay. If it’s easy to travel and there are places to stay, I think I could last long if I ordain as a monk.
Find a place which is harmonious and has good vinaya. Support for travel is a luxury, don’t expect such things. One shouldn’t have travel lust as a monk.
Monasteries are places where monks stay, I don’t understand your saying “if there are places to stay”, unless you never heard of such a thing as monasteries before.
One shouldn’t delay ordination. Learning can be done as a monk. The desire to go forth is impermanent, go forth now while it’s still there.
Without more details, I dunno what you’re attached to in the household life.
Travel is an obsticle to meditation and progress as mentioned in the visuddhimagga.
Ten Impediments
A dwelling, family, and gain,
A class, and building too as fifth,
And travel, kin, affliction, books,
And supernormal powers: ten. page 87 vsm
Travel is going on a journey. If someone is expected to give the going forth somewhere else, or if some requisite is obtainable there and he cannot rest content without getting it [that will be an impediment; for] even if he goes into the forest to do the ascetic’s duties, he will find it hard to get rid of thoughts about the journey. So one in this position should apply himself to the ascetic’s duties after he has done the journey and transacted the business.
Ajahn Jayasaro told me before I left WPN for Pa-Auk. “Stay at one place for at least 2 years otherwise you will disrobe.” However, you really should stay much longer at one place. The above advice is the best… pick a place that follows vinaya and harmonious. You should ordain at the best possible place (Why go elsewhere?). You should do just as you believe you should follow the best religion. (Why go elsewhere?)
Best wishes on your journey. It took me a long time to ordain. It might take you some time as well.
That’s scary, longest I have stayed at one place since I went forth almost 4 years ago is 10 months at Na Uyana. I should ask my teacher for less travelling. I also prefer to stay at one place, get my daily routine settled down rather than having to readjust every few months and the readjustment period can be a few months itself.
Are you leaving due to dissatisfaction on your own? Do you keep your base with your teacher? That could be different if your teacher sends you to different places.
That is why I don’t recommend Malaysia. Visas are not possible long term. Only one monk is allowed per monastery legally. I don’t like what some monasteries do in order to have multiple monks in one monastery. Try to find a new base that is long term, legal, and supportive to the happiness and satisfaction of your monk life.
Keeping a “whatsapp preceptor” is silly. Calling a whatsapp preceptor a base is not so good. It seems you say that you are the one asking and he gives permission. What else can he do or say? However, it would be good if he advised you to find a place that suits your needs. He should know all the places and pick on that is suitable for you.
I think you misunderstood. Both of the monasteries I mentioned above are in Malaysia. I am Malaysian. There’s no visa issue. My preceptor is likely just wanting to maintain a good relationship between the monasteries and not seem like trying to take away the novice monk of an another monk.
The maintaining good relations thing has some nuances to it. My preceptor is from Austria, so taking over to run a Malaysian monastery, he wants it so that Malaysian monks can train in SBS and go back to where they come from instead of appearing like SBS is draining away the monks to stay at SBS. But it’s more like a training centre where other monasteries in Malaysia can be confident to send their monks to SBS just for some training and not having to worry about losing their monks to SBS. I am pretty tired personally of this travelling, and would rather stay longer in SBS. Anyway, I am the first test case of this category.
Is this in Vinaya? I thought the norm is that monks travel from place to place anyway?
One should stay with a preceptor or proper nissaya teacher until Nissaya Muktaka is finished. This is vinaya. One needs to get permission from the preceptor to go to another place and show that he will go to a proper place with a proper teacher. He should not let him go if there is no proper teacher. Is your preceptor properly qualified according to vinaya to be a preceptor. I highly doubt it, but it is rarely practiced (even though it does not negate the rule). The ordination is still valid.
I’m sure if you asked to stay at sbs you could stay there, especially if you ordained there. Furthermore, there are no visa issues for you. However, I’m not sure an ebt-sbs is the best place for classical theravadans.
Getting tired of moving from place to place might be part of the reverse psychology training against travel. Maybe to get it out of your system. But one problem is, that you don’t have a settling nature to begin with. You will likely want to leave within a 10 month period, if that is the longest you have stayed in one place. When I first ordained at pa-auk in 2001, one was not allowed to travel at all. It was against the pa-auk visa permission policies. There were 7 checkpoints from Mawlamyine to Yangon and you needed a good reason to go. You needed a special letter from the monastery. If you didn’t have that letter, Sayadawgyi would get a call from the checkpoint area and then Sayadawgyi would complain to me (and others) about who was breaking the rules. I didn’t travel to Bagan until 2016 even though I ordained in 2001. I finally got the courage to ask for permission and brought a senior local pa-auk monk with me as a bargaining piece to get permission.
I mean, additional dwelling places outside of monasteries.
Yes, Venerable Sir. I think I could just ordain at Pa Auk Pyin Oo Lwin and stay there for the rest of my life. However, I’m scared that I might start having thoughts of disrobing.
In theory this is true. However it’s very hard for a layperson to know what is best. There also has to be some level of “good enough for the next five years” too. Basically you need a place that will give the training and support to be a monk in different situations.
Do you have actual information about the situation?
@bksubhuti Given the recent news of civil war, deaths, and floods, I’m concerned about the safety of westerners traveling to Pa Auk Pyin Oo Lwin for ordination. Can you provide an update on the current situation?
Pyin oo lwin is 3000 feet up. that is why it is a cold climate there.
There is shelling in Pyin Oo Lwin somewhere, but I guess the locals are numb to it. The monastery is 30 minutes from pyin oo lwin city towards mandalay. I think it is near a military camp with a stronger presence.
My friend told me he is planning to stay. He has been there for quite a while… I think over 5 years. He has no plans to leave.
If you go, it is best to fly to Mandalay to avoid overland roads. You can fly to Mandalay from Bangkok.