dhammas are momentary. What logical problems and violations do you see?
If cittas are momentary, then:
- a) How does a non-existent citta causally acts on the later citta? It ceases as a cause before its effect arises!
We could also rephrase this as:
b) How can the current citta be conditioned if its condition does not exist?
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How can citta with wisdom examine the past (and non existent) akusala citta that has just ceased?
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How can one recollect one’s former lives if those cittas do not exist?
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How can the Buddha predict the future if future cittas or rupas do not yet exist?
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What is the point of Absence/Disappearance (natthi, vigata paccaya) condition if each. any and every kind of citta is momentary anyway?
Just some questions. I am sure there could
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First let’s establish what momentary/momentariness means in Theravada.
From the Sāratthapakāsinī (Samyutta nikaya commentary by Buddhaghosa)
II 99,30-31
Ekasmiṃ hi accharā-kkhaṇe anekāni
citta-koṭi-sata-sahassāni uppajjanti
“in the timespan of a finger-snap many hundred
thousand of koṭis of minds arise and pass away.”
Sutta-pitaka:
Mahāniddesa 42
Life, person, pleasure, pain — just these alone
Join in one conscious moment that flicks by.Devas, though they live for eighty-four thousand kalpas,
Are not the same for two such moments…Breakup of dhammas is foredoomed at their birth;
Those present decay, unmingled with those past.
They come from nowhere, break up, nowhere go;
Flash in and out, as lightning in the sky.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak … .than.html
Loka Sutta: The World
Then a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One: "‘The world, the world’[1] it is said. In what respect does the word ‘world’ apply?
"Insofar as it disintegrates,[2] monk, it is called the ‘world.’ Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.
"The ear disintegrates. Sounds disintegrate…
"The nose disintegrates. Aromas disintegrate…
"The tongue disintegrates. Tastes disintegrate…
"The body disintegrates. Tactile sensations disintegrate…
"The intellect disintegrates. Ideas disintegrate. Consciousness at the intellect consciousness disintegrates. Contact at the intellect disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.
“Insofar as it disintegrates, it is called the ‘world.’”
SN 1.11 Nandana
Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://suttacentral.net/sn1.11/en/
Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Savatthi in Jetas Grove, Anathapiṇḍikas Park. There the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus thus: Bhikkhus!
Venerable sir! those bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this:
Once in the past, bhikkhus, a certain devata of the Tavatiṃsa host was revelling in Nandana Grove, < 11 > supplied and endowed with the five cords of celestial sensual pleasure, accompanied by a retinue of celestial nymphs. On that occasion he spoke this verse:
They do not know bliss
Who have not seen Nandana,
The abode of the glorious male devas
Belonging to the host of Thirty. [19]
When this was said, bhikkhus, a certain devata replied to that devata in verse:Dont you know, you fool,
That maxim of the arahants?
Impermanent are all formations;
Their nature is to arise and vanish.
Having arisen, they cease:
Their appeasement is blissful.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.111.than.html
The Blessed One said, "Monks, Sariputta is wise, of great discernment, deep discernment, wide… joyous… rapid… quick… penetrating discernment. For half a month, Sariputta clearly saw insight[1] into mental qualities one after another. This is what occurred to Sariputta through insight into mental qualities one after another:
"There was the case where Sariputta — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities — entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Whatever qualities there are in the first jhana — directed thought, evaluation, rapture, pleasure, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness, desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention — he ferreted them out one after another. Known to him they arose, known to him they remained, known to him they subsided. He discerned, ‘So this is how these qualities, not having been, come into play. Having been, they vanish.’ He remained unattracted & unrepelled with regard to those qualities, independent, detached, released, dissociated, with an awareness rid of barriers. He discerned that ‘There is a further escape,’ and pursuing it there really was for him.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak … .than.html
Loka Sutta: The World
Then a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One: "‘The world, the world’[1] it is said. In what respect does the word ‘world’ apply?
"Insofar as it disintegrates,[2] monk, it is called the ‘world.’ Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.
"The ear disintegrates. Sounds disintegrate…
"The nose disintegrates. Aromas disintegrate…
"The tongue disintegrates. Tastes disintegrate…
"The body disintegrates. Tactile sensations disintegrate…
"The intellect disintegrates. Ideas disintegrate. Consciousness at the intellect consciousness disintegrates. Contact at the intellect disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.
“Insofar as it disintegrates, it is called the ‘world.’”
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Thus it is clear that Momentariness is the truth according to Theravada. But is it in accordance with reality?
You wondered if - in order to know past lives - those past cittas should still exist and the future ones too - since there are cases of the Buddha knowing the future. In fact there was a sect who also reasoned in this way (I forget the name). They thought realites must exist in all times!
In fact it is not only citttas that are momentary in Theravada - all mentaility (nama) and all rupa arises and pass away instantly , although rupa ceases slightly slower than nama.
This can be understood gradually. First there needs to be discerning of the differences between concept and reality.
Taking an inanimate object like table: the table is a designation, but what is really present are only groups of materiality that arise and pass away rapidly. Why does the table look the same?
Right now even the material elements have fallen away but the heat present in each group of rupa produces new rupa that has very similar characteristics to the just fallen away rupa. Yet is is not exactly the same and so eventually even a soild looking table looks ‘older’ compared to the original.
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People find it hard to accept that things like ‘table’ are not real. But it is because of not understanding this that the idea of permanence is so strong.
It seems hard to accept that this whole “world” ceases so rapidly. That is why the wholes need to be broken down into actual realities - color, hardness, heat and so on. Then a start is made in dissecting and breaking down into the different doors. Then the real nature can appear - anicca, dukkham, anatta.
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Nina Van gorkom explains this and quotes from the Abhidhamma pitaka:https://abhidhamma.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/The-Conditionality-of-Life.pdf
As regards absence-condition, natthi-paccaya, this condition is similar to proximitycondition, anantara-paccaya, and contiguity-condition, samanantara-condition12. The citta
which falls away conditions the arising of the next one by way of proximity-condition and
contiguity-condition. However, the next citta can only arise when the preceding one has
fallen away, when it is absent. Absence does not mean that the citta was never there; it
means that the citta that has just fallen away assists by its absence the citta arising next
to it; after it has fallen away it gives the next citta the opportunity to arise without any
interval.
The “Patthana” (Analytical Exposition, II, 23) refers to the arising and falling away
of cittas in contiguity; the citta with its accompanying cetasikas that has just fallen away
conditions the following citta with its accompanying cetasikas by way of absence-condition:
States, citta and cetasikas, which have just disappeared in contiguity, are related to present states, citta and cetasikas, by absence-condition.
Only one citta at a time arises and then falls away, but cittas succeed one another from
birth to death, and death is followed by rebirth. The cycle of birth and death continues
until all defilements have been eradicated and one finally passes away.
The third pair of conditions is disappearance-condition, vigata-paccaya, and
non-disappearance-condition, avigata-paccaya. Disappearance-condition is similar to
absence-condition. Non-disappearance-condition is similar to presence-condition. Similar
conditions have been given different names, “as an embellishment of teaching to suit the
needs of those who are teachable”, the “Visuddhimagga” (XVII, 100) states.
Disappearance-condition is similar to absence-condition but the word disappearance
helps us to understand that the absence of the conditioning dhamma does not mean that it
never was. Disappearance-condition also refers to the condition whereby the citta that has
fallen away conditions the arising of the next citta. The word disappearance helps us to
understand that the preceding citta, which is the conditioning dhamma, after it has reached
its cessation moment, gives the opportunity for the arising of the subsequent citta, the conditioned dhamma, without any interval.
As we have seen (Ch 5), each moment of citta can
be divided into three extremely short periods: the moment of its arising, the moment of
its presence and the moment of its cessation.
The preceding citta must have reached its
cessation moment so as to condition the subsequent citta since only one citta arises at a
time.
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Thank you for your reply, link and quotes.
While I cleared up some things about vigata/natthi conditionality, as far as it is between two different things (citta and rupa) which overlap each other, the MAIN problem still remains.
The citta which falls away conditions the arising of the next one by way of proximity-condition and contiguity-condition…Only one citta at a time arises and then falls away, but cittas succeed one another from birth to death
…
Disappearance-condition also refers to the condition whereby the citta that has
fallen away conditions the arising of the next citta.
Right. But how exactly does one citta(1), that has to cease before the other citta(2) arises, be able to condition it? The cause of citta(2) ceases before it (Citta(1)) is able to affect citta(2).
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Nina Van Gorkom:
Proximity-condition and contiguity-condition are conditions for cittas to arise again and again, in succession. Each citta with its associated cetasikas falls away and conditions the arising of the succeeding citta with its associated cetasikas. The next citta cannot arise if the preceding citta has not fallen away, there can be only one citta at a time. It is difficult to know the succession of the different cittas since they arise and fall away very rapidly. Attachment may arise in a sense-door process and then in the mind-door process1 , but, so long as there is no clear understanding of different realities, it seems that attachment can last for a while. In reality there are different cittas arising and falling away, succeeding one another because of proximity-condition and contiguity-condition.
You wondered if dhammas could be tri-temporal - existing in the past, present and future.
Some scientists have similar ideas - they speculate that memories are stored in tissue inside the brain ( so a limited “past and present is co-existing”, dvi-temporal). It seems plausible to them because they have no understanding of what mentality really is.
But whether tri or dvi this is all wrong. Imagine how much brain tissue would be needed to store the memories of aeons of past lives. Thus what we call memory is entirely nama.
People think things are lasting, albeit changing. Right now it is 5am and my morning coffee is on my desk. Because it looks the same moment to moment it is natural to believe that it is the same cup that is existing through time. And thus we live in this conventional world of objects and people. But objects and people are only the shadows of what is really there.
What we call a coffee cup is actually a mass of trillions of evanescent kalapas - groups of matter. And they fall away instantly. The utu (temperature ) in each group of matter produces new rupa replacing the ones that fell away. The seeing is also evanescent ,as are the thinking processes which know “this is a coffee cup”.
And this thinking process arises with sanna which marks each moment so there is memory of the object. This marking function is entirely natural (as are all processes) and can’t be stopped . The terms samanantara-paccaya and anatara-paccaya are used to denote the succession of cittas and associated phenomena:
There are other paccaya that give results even far into the future: kamma paccaya is of two types, nanakhanika kamma-paccaya and conascent kamma-condition.
It is nanakhanika kamma -paccaya that is able to produce results in the future. It can be considered like a seed. The seed is tiny but if conditions are right a large tree results.
Learning about the paccaya now might seem only theoretical. But that seed of understanding can develop little by little as more conditions are accumulated and that can give rise even to magga and phala citta in the future, in this life or in future lives.
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Thank you for your reply, RobertK !
You wondered if dhammas could be tri-temporal
Not exactly, though “tri-temporality” was one of the proposed solutions. Another one is to have a some sort of subconscious factor that has all the accumulations in it. This factor, of course, is anatta and ceases at death.
Imagine how much brain tissue would be needed to store the memories of aeons of past lives. Thus what we call memory is entirely nama.
If the past dhammas exist in the past, then in theory, one could see/recollect them without needing large brain or large hard-drive. Of course the mode of appearance of dhammas is momentary.
The difficulty that Buddhist faced (from other groups or even Buddhist schools) were precisely in this ultra difficult point. How to reconcile momentariness with anatta and rebirth. Hence why many different Buddhist philosophical explanations have emerged.
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It was the doctrine of the Sarvāstivādins, which included the Sarvāstivādins proper and the Pudgalavādins. They also argued that dhammas are momentary, but by this they meant their effects are momentary whilst the dhammas themselves always are. For the Pudgalavādins though only mental dhammas are momentary. Physical dhammas aren’t.
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