Fall of Western Civilization

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When and how do you think Western civilization will collapse? Do you think we will go back to a time without technology? I find it interesting that a technological world is not mentioned in the suttas, jatakas, apadanas. I think it’s possible that technology only exists when the human lifespan is below 100. When humans lived thousands of years and were happier, healthier and spiritually advanced, they didn’t need technology. Devas and Brahmas also don’t need technology.

I think western civilization will collapse when famine, war, flood, earthquakes, pandemic all happen at the same time. The next era after our modern era is probably a post-apocalyptic industrial age where the world loses its technology but is left with all the mechanical stuff, so it becomes messy and polluted.

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Why would the fall of western civilisation mean an end of technology?

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Yep. It’s going to take me a little time, but I will write more in response to you later.

Just boot up your computer, when it happens, and see if it still there. :folded_hands:

Renaldo

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I remember a text that speaks about the fall of humanity. When anger predominates, humanity falls because of war. When greed predominates, it falls because of famine. When delusion predominates, it falls because of disease. I’m not sure if this is the correct order.

Now, which of these conditions is the predominant one in these days? In any of these scenarios, people with technological skills could become very few in number. A technological collapse is possible.

I believe that the texts do not describe technological societies because that would have exceeded the comprehension capacity of people at the time. Nothing prevents some jatakas and accounts of past lives we know from having taken place in technological eras. Or perhaps the Buddha may have deliberately chosen to give preference to stories set in low-technology times, leaving out the others.

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I don’t have much to add beyond @Brunobm’s excellent post.

:folded_hands: Renaldo

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One more world war, and we’ll revert to using pigeon post. But who knows, those were prosperous days.

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Indeed, pigeon post, falconry, etc.

Renaldo

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If western civilisation ceased to exist, why would the rest of the world not have any technology? Why would Japan not have technology anymore?

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The results for Japan would actually be catastrophic. Global trade (as it exists currently) would largely collapse. This would mean that many materials, components, parts, etc. that they need for manufacturing would no longer be available, leading to an abeyance in production. The glocal economy would collapse, as would many local economies as a result, causing them not to be able to pay workers, etc. This could trigger energy and food crises. Many situations like this would arise as a result of the collapse of Western Civilization.

Due to the instability, Japan could also become embroiled in war itself, suffering because of regional conflicts and power struggles. For example, China would likely be in a much better position after such a collapse than Japan would, due to its size and resources, and it might decide to run military campaigns into Japan, at that point, for any number of reasons. One of which is that many parts of Japan have an excellent climate for food production, especially rice, which, in tough economic times, could feed many people. Another being that, having learned lessons from WWII when China was invaded by the Japanese Empire who occupied nearly 25% of the country (which was a mere 80 or so years ago and is in their recent memory), they may wish to take certain parts or all of Japan to protect themselves, and to project military power forward into the Pacific, the East China Sea (important for maritime trade and access to resources), the Tsugaru Strait (which was important in the Russo-Japanese war), The Sea of Japan (a wateway which connects Russia, Japan, North Korea, and South Korea, etc.).

So, yes, they certainly could lose a lot of their current technology. And without the correct political supports, it might also not be back up and running for a very, very long time either. Worst case scenario: even knowledge of how these things work would be lost.

I recommend reading a few books by Jared Diamond to broaden your mind about this topic, if you are interested. Particularly, Upheaval: Turning Points for Nations in Crisis, Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed, and Guns, Germs, and Steel as well.

Renaldo

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I think its also perfectly possible the Buddha didnt mention those periods simply because people back then wouldnt have understood what he was talking about anyways.

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We’ve had technology since the Stone Age.

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“Although everything is impermanent, I don’t believe that Western civilization will fall. Due to globalization, technology is being transferred worldwide. Some nations are more advanced than others, but technology continues to shape the course of humanity everywhere. Only a World War III involving atomic bombs could destroy this progress—but nations today are aware of what is good for themselves and for humanity. I don’t know for sure, but I strongly believe that we will only continue to advance—more and more.”

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1177 BC: The Year Civilization Collapsed

Renaldo