Is it important?
Can you attain sotapatti without it?
If so, is it only important to attain enlightenment?
first we need to define “meditation”.
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I’d say ‘bhavana’ and how many bhavanas are there?
yes bhavana is the right term - it means mental development and can be divided into samatha bhavana and vipassana bhavana. And for sotapatti, vipassana bhavana is needed 
Yes
Can you attain sotapatti without it?
Only if you hear the Dhamma from the Buddha directly, but it is understood people who enlighten by listening to the Dhamma already have some level of meditative skill (it was ancient India afterall)
If so, is it only important to attain enlightenment?
It is helpful in other ways too, even completely excluding enlightenment related things like seeings things more clearly as they are etc. Bhavana is an act of merit in and of itself, so it can lead to positive rebirths even if you don’t enlighten. and helps with making your views more right.
Could you say exactly what it is. What is ‘meditation’ then? Is is related to a specific posture or special place.
Do you have a reference for that?
Yes. Well like with all things in language things don’t translate perfectly. But the meditative states I’m talking about has to do purely with the mind and how developed the concentration skill is nothing to do with the posture places or anything else associated with meditation.
And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, ‘Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.’ With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is the development of concentration that… leads to a pleasant abiding in the here & now.
(2) "And what is the development of concentration that… leads to the attainment of knowledge & vision? There is the case where a monk attends to the perception of light and is resolved on the perception of daytime [at any hour of the day]. Day [for him] is the same as night, night is the same as day. By means of an awareness open & unhampered, he develops a brightened mind. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the attainment of knowledge & vision.
(3) "And what is the development of concentration that… leads to mindfulness & alertness? There is the case where feelings are known to the monk as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Perceptions are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness.
(4) "And what is the development of concentration that… leads to the ending of the effluents? There is the case where a monk remains focused on arising & falling away with reference to the five clinging-aggregates: ‘Such is form, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is feeling… Such is perception… Such are fabrications… Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.’ This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents.
"These are the four developments of concentration
Just as you need a certain level of physical training to do gymnastics, you need a level of mental strength/concentration to grasp the Dhamma at deep enough levels to enlighten
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Nothing saying that specifically but I’m sure you’re aware of the various suttas where the Buddha teaches and ppl enlighten without formally meditating.
Although now that I think of it, I was careless with my wording. It’s if you hear the Dhamma from an enlightened being, as some arahants in the texts have taught ppl to enlightenment as well. Not something restricted to Buddhas.
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Thanks, this is a great sutta.
I add ven. Bodhi:s translation with his notes.
Anguttara Nikaya 4.41
41 (1) Concentration
"Bhikkhus, there are these fou r developments of con cen tration. W hat four? (1) There is a development of concentration
that leads to dwelling happ ily in this v ery life.716 (2) There is a
developm ent of co n cen tratio n that leads to obtaining know ledge and vision. (3) There is a developm ent of concentration
that leads to m indfulness and clear com prehension. (4) There
is a developm ent of concentration that leads to the destruction
of the taints. [451 .
(1) "A nd w hat, bhikkhus, is the development of concen
tration that leads to d w elling happily in this very life? H ere,
secluded from sen su al p leasu res, secluded from unw holesom e
states, a bhikkhu enters an d dw ells in the first jhana, w hich
consists of rapture and p leasure b o m of seclusion, accom panied
by thought and exam ination. W ith the subsiding of thought and
examination, he enters and dw ells in the second jhana, w hich
has internal placidity and unification of m ind and consists of
rapture and pleasure born of concentration, w ithout thought
and examination. W ith the fading aw ay as well of rapture, he
dwells equanim ous and, m indful and clearly com prehending,
he experiences pleasure w ith the body; he enters and dwells in
the third jhana of w hich the noble ones declare: "He is equanimous, mindful, one w ho dw ells h a p p ily / W ith the abandoning
of pleasure and pain, and w i th the previous passing aw ay of joy
and dejection, he enters an d dw ells in the fourth jhana, neitherpainful nor pleasant, which has purification of m indfulness by
equanim ity. This is called the d evelop m en t of concentration
that leads to dwelling happily in this v ery life.717
(2) "A nd what is the developm ent of concentration that leads
to obtaining knowledge and vision?718 Here, a bhikkhu attends
to the perception of light; he focuses on the perception of day
thus: 'A s by day, so at night; as at night, so by d a y /719 Thus, with
a m ind that is open and uncovered, he develops a m ind imbued
w ith luminosity. This is the d evelopm ent of concentration that
leads to obtaining knowledge and vision.
(3) "A n d w hat is the d evelo p m en t of concentration that
leads to mindfulness and clear com prehension? H ere, a bhikkhu know s feelings as they arise, as they rem ain present, as
they disappear; he knows p ercep tio n s as they arise, as they
rem ain present, as they disappear; he know s thoughts as they
arise, as they rem ain present, as they d isap pear.720 This is the
developm ent of concentration that leads to m indfulness and
clear com prehension.
(4) "A n d w hat is the developm ent of concentration that leads
to the destruction of the taints? H ere, a bhikkhu dwells contem
plating arising and vanishing in the five aggregates subject to
clinging: ‘Such is form, such its origin, such its passing aw ay;
su ch is feeling . . . such is percep tio n . . . su ch are volitional activities . . , such is consciousness, such its origin, such its passing
aw ay .’ This is the development of concentration that leads to
the destruction of the taints.
"These are the four developm ents of concentration. And it
w as writh reference to this that I said in the Parayana, in ‘The
Q uestions of Punnaka’:
"H avin g com prehended the w o rld 's highs and lows,
he is not perturbed by anything in the w orld. [46]
Peaceful, fumeless, untroubled, wishless,
he has, I say, crossed over birth and old a g e ."721
Bodhi`s notes:
716 The Pali reads at thi bhikkhave samadhibhavana bhavita bahullkata
ditthadhammasukhaviharaya samvattati, lit., “there is, bhikkhus,
. a development of concentration, that, when developed and
cultivated, leads to dwelling happily in this very life.” Since
in English “when developed and cultivated” would be redundant, I have omitted it in favor of more natural English diction.
The same applies to each of the other three developments of
concentration.
717 Evidently, this refers to the attainment of the jhanas either by
one who does not use them to develop insight, or by an arahant, who enters the jhanas simply to dwell at ease. Elsewhere
the jhanas are shown to lead to the destruction of the taints. Ce
has vuccati in this section but not in the parallel sentences of the
next three sections. Ee is just the opposite, omitting vuccati here
but including it in the next three sections. Be omits vuccati in all
four sections.
718 Mp explains “knowledge and vision” in this context as the divine
eye (dibbacakkhunanadassanassa patilabhaya). Elsewhere it is used
to mean insight knowledge or even full enlightenment.
719 Yatha diva tatha rattim, yatha rattim tatha diva. Mp: “As he attends
to the perception of light by day, so he attends to it at night; and
so in reverse.”
720 Mp: “How are feelings known as they arise, etc.? Here, a bhikkhu comprehends the base (vatthu, the sense organ) and the
object (arammana). By comprehending the base and the object,
he knows: ‘Thus those feelings have arisen; thus they stand;
thus they cease.’ The same method applies to perceptions and
thoughts.”
721 Sn 1048, also cited at 3:33.
So, as I see it, #1 is the attainment of mundane jhanas, #2 is a special type of concentration, #3 is related to satipatthana and #4 is describing advanced levels of vipassana leading to attainment of enlightenment.
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Sounds right to me
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What role does recollecting and pondering the Dhamma wisely play?
SN 46.3: Sīlasutta—Bhikkhu Bodhi (suttacentral.net)
3 (3) Virtue
“Bhikkhus, those bhikkhus who are accomplished in virtue, accomplished in
concentration, accomplished in wisdom, accomplished in liberation,
accomplished in the knowledge and vision of liberation: even the sight of those
bhikkhus is helpful, I say; even listening to them … even approaching them …
even attending on them … even recollecting them … even going forth after them
is helpful, I say. For what reason? Because when one has heard the Dhamma
from such bhikkhus one dwells withdrawn by way of two kinds of withdrawal—
withdrawal of body and withdrawal of mind.
“Dwelling thus withdrawn, one recollects that Dhamma and thinks it over.
Whenever, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu dwelling thus withdrawn recollects that
Dhamma and thinks it over, [68] on that occasion the enlightenment factor of
mindfulness is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that occasion the bhikkhu develops
the enlightenment factor of mindfulness; on that occasion the enlightenment
factor of mindfulness comes to fulfilment by development in the bhikkhu.
63
“Dwelling thus mindfully, he discriminates that Dhamma with wisdom,
examines it, makes an investigation of it. Whenever, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu
dwelling thus mindfully discriminates that Dhamma with wisdom, examines it,
makes an investigation of it, on that occasion the enlightenment factor of
discrimination of states is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that occasion the bhikkhu
develops the enlightenment factor of discrimination of states; on that occasion
the enlightenment factor of discrimination of states comes to fulfilment by
development in the bhikkhu.
“While he discriminates that Dhamma with wisdom, examines it, makes an
investigation of it, his energy is aroused without slackening. Whenever,
bhikkhus, a bhikkhu’s energy is aroused without slackening as he discriminates
that Dhamma with wisdom, examines it, makes an investigation of it, on that
occasion the enlightenment factor of energy is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that
occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of energy; on that
occasion the enlightenment factor of energy comes to fulfilment by development
in the bhikkhu.
“When his energy is aroused, there arises in him spiritual rapture. Whenever,
bhikkhus, spiritual rapture arises in a bhikkhu whose energy is aroused, on that
occasion the enlightenment factor of rapture is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that
occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of rapture; on that
occasion the enlightenment factor of rapture comes to fulfilment by development
in the bhikkhu.
“For one whose mind is uplifted by rapture the body becomes tranquil and the
mind becomes tranquil. Whenever, bhikkhus, the body becomes tranquil and the
mind becomes tranquil in a bhikkhu whose mind is uplifted by rapture, on that
occasion the enlightenment factor of tranquillity is aroused by the bhikkhu; on
that occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of tranquillity; on
that occasion the enlightenment factor of tranquillity comes to fulfilment by
development in the bhikkhu. [69]
“For one whose body is tranquil and who is happy the mind becomes
concentrated.
64 Whenever, bhikkhus, the mind becomes concentrated in a
bhikkhu whose body is tranquil and who is happy, on that occasion the
enlightenment factor of concentration is aroused by the bhikkhu; on that
occasion the bhikkhu develops the enlightenment factor of concentration; on that
occasion the enlightenment factor of concentration comes to fulfilment by
development in the bhikkhu.
“He closely looks on with equanimity at the mind thus concentrated.
Whenever, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu closely looks on with equanimity at the mind
thus concentrated, on that occasion the enlightenment factor of equanimity is
aroused by the bhikkhu; on that occasion the bhikkhu develops the
enlightenment factor of equanimity; on that occasion the enlightenment factor of
equanimity comes to fulfilment by development in the bhikkhu.
“Bhikkhus, when these seven factors of enlightenment have been developed
and cultivated in this way, seven fruits and benefits may be expected. What are
the seven fruits and benefits?
“One attains final knowledge early in this very life.
“If one does not attain final knowledge early in this very life, then one attains
final knowledge at the time of death.
“If one does not attain final knowledge early in this very life or at the time of
death, then with the utter destruction of the five lower fetters one becomes an
attainer of Nibbāna in the interval.
65 “If one does not attain final knowledge
early in this very life … or become an attainer of Nibbāna in the interval, then
with the utter destruction of the five lower fetters one becomes an attainer of
Nibbāna upon landing.
“If one does not attain final knowledge early in this very life … [70] … or
become an attainer of Nibbāna upon landing, then with the utter destruction of
the five lower fetters one becomes an attainer of Nibbāna without exertion.
“If one does not attain final knowledge early in this very life … or become an
attainer of Nibbāna without exertion, then with the utter destruction of the five
lower fetters one becomes an attainer of Nibbāna with exertion.
“If one does not attain final knowledge early in this very life … or become an
attainer of Nibbāna with exertion, then with the utter destruction of the five
lower fetters one becomes one bound upstream, heading towards the Akaniṭṭha
realm.
“When, bhikkhus, the seven factors of enlightenment have been developed
and cultivated in this way, these seven fruits and benefits may be expected.”
And in some cases putthujana teachers.
Gamantapabbharavasi mahasivatthera : the worldling whose students were enlightened - General Theravada topics - Classical Theravāda (classicaltheravada.org)
yes, without formal meditation.
But even so those people who attained must have (immediately) understood satipatthana and gone through the stages of vipassana. Ｗhile listening they could directly experience dhammas and so distinguish nama and rupa and the higher levels.
correct. thus the rest of my quote.
…but it is understood people who enlighten by listening to the Dhamma already have some level of meditative skill (it was ancient India afterall)
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Some of those who understood during a Dhamma talk may have been spiritual seekers.
But the path of the Buddha is unique and subtle. And many who attained had no ‘level of meditative skill’.
For example:
Suppabuddhakuṭṭhisutta—
-
Udāna 5.3
- Suppabuddhakuṭṭhisuttaṁ 43
# The Discourse about the Leper Suppabuddha
Thus I heard: At one time the Gracious One was dwelling near Rājagaha, in Bamboo Wood, at the Squirrels’ Feeding Place. Then at that time the leper known as Suppabuddha Wide Awake was in Rājagaha, a poor man, a wretched man, a miserable man.
Then at that time the Gracious One was sitting teaching Dhamma surrounded by a great assembly. The leper Suppabuddha saw while still far away that great crowd of people assembled together. Having seen that, this occurred to him:
“Undoubtedly in this place some comestibles and edibles will be distributed. Well now, I could go to that great crowd of people, perhaps I will get some comestibles or edibles in this place.”
Then the leper Suppabuddha went to that great crowd of people. The leper Suppabuddha saw the Gracious One sat teaching Dhamma surrounded by a great assembly. Having seen that, this occurred to him:
“Here there are no comestibles or edibles being distributed, this ascetic Gotama is teaching Dhamma to the assembly. Perhaps I also could hear the Dhamma”, and he sat down right there and then, thinking: “I will also listen to the Dhamma.”
Then the Gracious One, applied his mind and encompassed fully the whole of that assembly with his mind, thinking: “Who here is able to understand the Dhamma?”
The Gracious One saw the leper Suppabuddha sat in that assembly, and having seen him, this occurred to him: “This one here is able to understand the Dhamma”, and having regard to the leper Suppabuddha he related a gradual talk, that is to say: talk on giving, talk on virtue, talk on heaven, the danger, degradation, and defilement of sensual desires, and the advantages in renunciation—these he explained. When the Gracious One knew that the leper Suppabuddha was of ready mind, malleable mind, unhindered mind, uplifted mind, trusting mind, then he explained the Dhamma teaching the Awakened Ones have discovered themselves: suffering, origination, cessation, path.
Just as it is known that a clean cloth without a stain would take the dye well, so to the leper Suppabuddha on that very seat, the dust-free, stainless Vision-of-the-Dhamma arose: “Whatever has the nature of arising, all that has the nature of ceasing.”
Then the leper Suppabuddha having seen the Dhamma, attained the Dhamma, understood the Dhamma, penetrated the Dhamma, crossed over uncertainty, being without doubts, attained full confidence, having become independent of others in the Teacher’s teaching.
Suppabuddha was able to understand the deep meaning of what the Buddha explained, and so he could directly understand the present moment realities.
He had no experience of jhana or any ‘meditation’. But he did have accumulated perfections ( parami) from past lives.
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Oh interesting. Then I should rephrase my statement above to be more along the lines of.
Only if you hear the Dhamma from the Buddha directly, but it is understood people who enlighten by listening to the Dhamma meditate while listening.
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Not necessary from the Budhha- it could be from someone who understands the Dhamma well. Or even by considering the true Dhamma alone.
The one who attains, if they had accumulations for jhana might use jhana as basis ( they exit the jhana and insight the immediately fallen away factors).
Or they might have no accumulations for jhana but
attend directly to conditioned phenomena
(sankharanimittam upatthapehti).
The latter are sukkhavipassaka.
Either way is bhavana.
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Yes, i guess ultimately it is thru bhavana only. As those who enlighten by listening have to do bhavana on the Dhamma they are listening to.
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