What counts as Samphappalapa or talking nonsense?

Hello everyone,
Could someone tell me what counts as Samphappalapa or Niratthakakathā?

If I talk to someone and say “it’s a nice weather today”, is it pointless talk? The conversation could go on without me saying it. So, it wasn’t really necessary to make that remark about the weather. Moreover, it’s not related to the Dhamma.

I would also like to come up with poems on certain occasions to describe how I’m feeling. Would that also count as Samphappalapa or Niratthakakathā if my poems don’t include the Dhamma.

Here are a few suttas about that mentions Samphappalapa
Samphappalāpasutta

“… the sentient beings who refrain from talking nonsense are few, while those who don’t refrain are many. …”

… “Evameva kho, bhikkhave, appakā te sattā ye samphappalāpā paṭiviratā; atha kho eteva bahutarā sattā ye samphappalāpā appaṭiviratā …pe….

Veḷudvāreyyasutta

Furthermore, a noble disciple reflects:
‘If someone were to annoy me by talking silliness and nonsense, I wouldn’t like it.
But if I were to annoy someone else by talking silliness and nonsense, they wouldn’t like it either.’
The thing that is disliked by me is also disliked by another.
Since I dislike this thing, how can I inflict it on another?’
Reflecting in this way, they give up talking nonsense themselves. And they encourage others to give up talking nonsense, praising the giving up of talking nonsense.

Puna caparaṁ, gahapatayo, ariyasāvako iti paṭisañcikkhati:
‘yo kho maṁ samphabhāsena samphappalāpabhāsena samudācareyya, na metaṁ assa piyaṁ manāpaṁ.
Ahañceva kho pana paraṁ samphabhāsena samphappalāpabhāsena samudācareyyaṁ, parassapi taṁ assa appiyaṁ amanāpaṁ.
Yo kho myāyaṁ dhammo appiyo amanāpo, parassa peso dhammo appiyo amanāpo.
Yo kho myāyaṁ dhammo appiyo amanāpo, kathāhaṁ paraṁ tena saṁyojeyyan’ti.
So iti paṭisaṅkhāya attanā ca samphappalāpā paṭivirato hoti, parañca samphappalāpā veramaṇiyā samādapeti, samphappalāpā veramaṇiyā ca vaṇṇaṁ bhāsati.

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Here are some more suttas: https://index.readingfaithfully.org/#useless-speech-samphappalaapa

But I don’t think the suttas give much more detail. This may be something that one of our local commentary experts can help with.

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Thank you for posting the link. This is the first time I come across that website. I think it’s very useful because it tells us in which sutta specific pali words are mentioned.

If you want to know every place a word appears, you will want to use the search feature on a site like SuttaCentral or an app like the TPR. The index is just “significant” uses of the word.

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I think when u talk nonsense u realise u talk nonsense…talk wich includes gossips

from the Vism. XXII 65, 66

Kilesesu diṭṭhivicikicchā paṭhamañāṇavajjhā, doso tatiyañāṇavajjho, lobhamohamānathinauddhaccaahirikaanottappāni catutthañāṇavajjhāni.

65.In the case of the defilements, [false] view and uncertainty are eliminated by the first knowledge. Hate is eliminated by the third knowledge. Greed, delusion, conceit (pride), mental stiffness, agitation, consciencelessness, and shameless- ness are eliminated by the fourth knowledge.

Micchattesu micchādiṭṭhi musāvādo micchākammanto micchāājīvoti ime paṭhamañāṇavajjhā, micchāsaṅkappo pisuṇavācā pharusavācāti ime tatiyañāṇavajjhā, cetanāyeva cettha vācāti veditabbā.

66.In the case of the wrongnesses, wrong view, false speech, wrong action, and wrong [685] livelihood are eliminated by the first knowledge. Wrong thinking, malicious speech, and harsh speech are eliminated by the third knowledge. And here only volition is to be understood as speech.

Samphappalāpamicchāvāyāmasatisamādhivimuttiñāṇā ni catutthañāṇavajjhāni.
Gossip, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration, wrong deliverance, and wrong knowledge are eliminated by the fourth knowledge
{the fourth knowledge is arahatship]

Even the Buddha did not always directly talk on Dhamma: so there are many suttas that have “Then …went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side”.
But of course the speech of the Buddha was without any akusala.

For us too we may exchange some small talk “how are you today, the weather is nice…” and it can be rooted in kusala (although usually isn’t).

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