Thai Forest Myth That 2 Meals Before Solar Noon Is Against Vinaya

A long debate in the Thai Forest Tradition is that eating two meals before Solar Noon is breaking Vinaya. Recently, I wrote this in a letter with a monk who follows a similar philosophy as Ajahn Kukrit and the Buddhawajana movement. (spelling is intentional as they spell it)

As for eating one or two meals before Solar Noon. We should understand that there are no pācittiya rules that restrict the number of times one can eat.

We can look at Pāc 35.
35. yo pana bhikkhu bhuttāvī pavārito anatirittaṃ khādanīyaṃ vā bhojanīyaṃ vā khādeyya vā bhuñjeyya vā, pācittiyaṃ.
35. If any bhikkhu, having eaten and been invited, should eat or consume unoffered solid food or soft food, it is a *pācittiya* offence.

If one is eating, and while he is sitting down and eating, someone offers food to him but he refuses, he may continue eating without a problem. However, if he stands up and then eats further food that is not leftover, he incurs a pācittiya. Here, it is very clear that it is allowed if he never refused food and if he did, he can only have food that was leftover from other monks.

We can also look directly at Bhaddālisuttaṃ. I know you like suttas so I’m only citing mula sources without commentary.

You can click on this TPR link to see for yourself. While it is translated here literally, the commentaries treat this as “one part of the day” which matches the sutta perfectly.
Aj Sujato uses that proper “one part of the day,” as his suttacentral translation.

evaṃ vutte, āyasmā bhaddāli bhagavantaṃ etadavoca – ‘‘ahaṃ kho, bhante, na ussahāmi ekāsanabhojanaṃ bhuñjituṃ; ekāsanabhojanañhi me, bhante, bhuñjato siyā kukkuccaṃ, siyā vippaṭisāro’’ti.
When this was said, Venerable Bhaddāli said to the Blessed One: “Venerable sir, I am unable to eat a single-session meal; if I, venerable sir, were to eat a single-session meal, remorse and regret might arise in me.”
‘‘tena hi tvaṃ, bhaddāli, yattha nimantito assasi tattha ekadesaṃ bhuñjitvā ekadesaṃ nīharitvāpi bhuñjeyyāsi.
“Then, Bhaddāli, if you are invited, you may eat a portion there and then eat another portion after taking it away.
evampi kho tvaṃ, bhaddāli, bhuñjamāno ekāsano yāpessasī’’ti .
Even by eating in this way, Bhaddāli, you will maintain a single-session.”

So.. Buddhavācana clearly says that you can indeed eat more than one time per day.

This is often a misconception arising from the Thai and Lao forest traditions. They allow Yāgo because the Buddha also recommended it.. But that is still eating and staple food. It is merely a “tradition” rather than the actual Buddha’s Vinaya. It should be noted that it is a dhutaṅga (a commentarial practice mentioned in the Visuddhimagga) to eat only one single meal.

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May be relevant or irrelevant but when I ordained as a novice when I was a child, we ate 2 times a day. Once at about 5 am and once at about 11 am.

This is Thai tradition , not Myanmar tradition.

Fascinating, Venerable, thank you. So, what is the beginning and cutoff? From dawn until noon a Bhikkhu may eat multiple meals so long as they are within the rules? In other words, the teaching is to not eat past noon but before noon multiple portions are allowed and considered “a single session”, rather than to only eat one single meal per day before noon?

Yes. Between Dawn and Solar Noon although Dawnrise has some controversy where Noon has zero controversy. You may eat as many times as you wish, but obviously, it should be best done with right reflection of the 2nd of the 4 requisites. “Wisely reflecting, I use this almsfood…”

Buddhist Sun is an app that can help you follow 8 precepts. It is made for monks though. We will be adding 8th day uposathas to it soon.

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Yes. the one meal a day is a requirement thing is just absurd. How can it be a recommended dhutanga if it was full blown required?

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Much appreciated, Venerable :slight_smile:

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