I saw this on dhammawheel
I always had difficulty understanding how ceasing the 3 first fetters - Personality-belief, Skeptical Doubt, Attachment to mere Rules and Rituals - could mean anything to anyone. Rather no bar. Because thereby not an iota of craving - the cause of suffering - is done with
This topic can study the bolded attachment. It is an aspect of view.
The Sammohavinodani (page227):
“The ordinary man is like a madman and without considering ‘Is this
right or not’ and aspiring by means of clinging …he performs any
of the kinds of kamma [good or bad]…
Thus silabataparamasa
[clinging to rules and rituals]is a condition for all three, namely
the sense desire world, fine material and immaterial kinds of
existence with their divisions and what they include”
from tam bach
06/15/14 #135706
I am editing the translations of the discussions in Vietnam last Sept, just
come accross this part which is relevant to our dicussion:B: When there’s no understanding, there is always trying. Even when I
come to meet Ajahn, I am motivated by the idea to come to get more
understanding for my-self.Ajahn Sujin: It has to be be like this until wrong understanding is eradicated
completely. In Tipitaka, there is the term silabata paramassa, which means
wrong path or wrong practice even in those who understand the teaching.
Because whatever arises is conditioned, as long as there is the idea of
self, there must be moment which tries. Even right now, there can be the
intention to be aware. Right understanding can see that is not right,
because intention is not a factor of the Eightfold Path. By understanding
this, there will be the letting go of the wanting to try or having the
intention to do… Only a sotapana is the one who has eradicated silabata
paramassa completely and absolutely, but panna will keep one on the right
track because it knows that this is not right, not right, not right. So it
begins again and again, to understand more firmly that what ever appears
is conditioned. It takes quite a long long time to have the firm
understanding which is sacca nana. Because panna can see and know every
time ditthi arises.
This is a very important point because this arises even in those who understand the Dhamma…
This speaks to how much akusala we really have.
R
While it is not present on the surface for one who follows dhamma, it should be understood that it is not fully eradicated. You are faithful, but you really do not have unshakable faith.. In other words, even in this life, what more can be said about other lives, you are in danger of falling into this view of Sīlabbataparāmāsa.
peṭakopadesapāḷi p256
Sīlabbataparāmāso dvidhā – sīlassa vā suddhassa vā.
69. Therein, the clinging to rites and rituals (sīlabbataparāmāsa) is twofold: either clinging to pure morality or to rituals.
Tattha sīlassa sīlabbataparāmāso imināhaṃ sīlena vā vatena vā tapena vā brahmacariyena vā devo vā bhavissāmi devaññataro vā tattha kapotapādāhi accharāhi saddhiṃ kīḷissāmi ramissāmi paricarissāmīti.
Therein, clinging to morality (sīla) is thinking: “By this morality, or by this vow, or by this ascetic practice, or by this holy life, I shall become a deva or one of the devas; there I shall play, delight, and attend with nymphs with pigeon-feet.”
Yathābhūtadassananti rucivimutti rāgo rāgaparivattakā diṭṭhirūpanā passanā asantussitassa sīlabbataparāmāso.
Seeing things as they truly are, liberation from liking, attachment, the arising of views, perception, and the clinging to rites and rituals of one who is discontent.
Tattha katamo suddhassa sīlabbataparāmāso?
Therein, what is clinging to pure morality?
Idhekacco sīlaṃ parāmasati, sīlena sujjhati, sīlena nīyati, sīlena muccati, sukhaṃ vītikkamati, dukkhaṃ vītikkamati, sukhadukkhaṃ vītikkamati anupāpuṇāti uparimena.
Here, someone clings to morality, thinking: “By morality one is purified, by morality one is led, by morality one is liberated; one overcomes happiness, one overcomes suffering, one overcomes both happiness and suffering, one attains the higher.”
Tadubhayaṃ sīlavataṃ parāmasati tadubhayena sīlavatena sujjhanti muccanti nīyanti, sukhaṃ vītikkamanti, dukkhaṃ vītikkamanti, sukhadukkhaṃ vītikkamanti, anupāpuṇantīti avisucikaraṃ dhammaṃ avimuttikaraṃ dhammaṃ visucito vimuttito paccāgacchantassa yā tathābhūtassa khanti ruci mutti pekkhanā ākāraparivitakko diṭṭhinijjhāyanā passanā, ayaṃ suddhassa sīlabbataparāmāso.
Clinging to both morality and vows, thinking: “By both morality and vows one is purified, liberated, led; one overcomes happiness, one overcomes suffering, one overcomes both happiness and suffering, one attains”—this is the clinging to pure morality for one who returns from a defiled and unliberating state to a state of purity and liberation, and who has such patience, liking, liberation, expectation, thought-process, conviction, observation, and deep confidence.
69. Tattha parāmāsā ariyasāvakassa pahīnā bhavanti yāva āyatiṃ anuppādadhammā, so sīlavā bhavati ariyakantehi sīlehi samannāgato akkhaṇḍehi yāva upasamasaṃvattanikehi.
These two clingings are abandoned for the noble disciple, up to being no longer subject to future arising; he becomes virtuous, endowed with noble, unblemished virtues, up to those conducive to calm.
Imesaṃ tiṇṇaṃ saṃyojanānaṃ pahānā sutavā ariyasāvako bhavati sotāpanno avinipātadhammo, sabbaṃ. Ete ubho
By the abandonment of these three fetters, the well-learned noble disciple becomes a stream-enterer (sotāpanna), one not subject to falling into lower states (avinipātadhammo)—all of it. Both these.
dhammasaṅgaṇīpāḷi p 208
1009. tattha katamo sīlabbataparāmāso?
Among these, what is clinging to rules and vows (sīlabbataparāmāso)?
ito bahiddhā samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṃ ‘sīlena suddhi, vatena suddhi, sīlabbatena suddhī’ti yā evarūpā diṭṭhi diṭṭhigataṃ diṭṭhigahanaṃ diṭṭhikantāro diṭṭhivisūkāyikaṃ diṭṭhivipphanditaṃ diṭṭhisaṃyojanaṃ gāho paṭiggāho abhiniveso parāmāso kummaggo micchāpatho micchattaṃ titthāyatanaṃ vipariyāsaggāho – ayaṃ vuccati sīlabbataparāmāso.
For recluses and brahmins outside this Dispensation (ito bahiddhā samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṃ), the view that says: ‘Purity through moral practices (sīlena suddhi), purity through vows (vatena suddhi), purity through moral practices and vows (sīlabbatena suddhī)’ – such a view, a viewpoint, a thicket of views, a wilderness of views, a contortion of views, a vacillation of views, a fetter of views, a grasping, an adherence, an obsession, an attachment, a wrong path, a mistaken way, wrongness, a sectarian ground, a perverted grasp – this is called clinging to rules and vows (sīlabbataparāmāso).
Robert,
That’s an excellent quote from the Commentary to the Vibhaṅga, and Buddhaghosa also points out the same in the Visuddhimagga.
R
Yes it shows that it be be very gross or subtle.
Yes, and it can lead to birth in the sense >realm, fine material realm, or the >immaterial realm
In addition to being on of the five orambhāgiya-samyojanā, it is also the third of the four upādānā; namely, sīlabbatūpādāna, which is defined as the clinging to rites and rituals. The other three are kāmūpādāna (the clinging to sense objects and sensuality), diṭṭhūpādāna (the clinging to wrong views), and attavādūpādāna (clinging to the belief in “l” or “mine”).
It’s very useful to understand this fetter.
R