Sabbe saṅkhārā anattā or Sabbe dhamma anattā?

Textual Scholarship
13

“sabbe saṅkhārā anattā ti” ti versus Sabbe dhamma anattaa

Try to see all the links gathered by google, but maybe not necessary to visit them all.

Original version https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=277

“Sabbe sankhara anatta” ti

Copy version https://tipitaka.fandom.com/wiki/Dhammapada_Verses_277,_278_and_279

“Sabbe dhammā anatta” ti

It seems a mess has been built up.

The original version provides translation of “Sabbe sankhara anatta” ti but it becomes ‘dhamma’ and phenomena, which should not be.

Verse 279: “All phenomena (dhammas) are without Self”…

Sabbe sankhara anatta should not become “All phenomena (dhammas).” Sabbe sankhara anatta should only be Sabbe sankhara anatta. By providing the term dhammas, seemingly it became Sabbe dhamma anatta.

I found something: Patis I_utf8

Suttantapiṭake

Khuddakanikāyo

Paṭisambhidāmaggo

Ñāṇakathā.

  1. Sutamayañāṇaṃ.

  2. Kathaṃ sotavadhāne paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ:

'Ime dhammā abhiññeyyā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Ime dhammā pariññeyyā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Ime dhammā pahatabbā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Ime dhammā bhāvetabbā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Ime dhammā sacchikātabbā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.
'Ime dhammā hānabhāgiyā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Ime dhammā ṭhītibhāgiyā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Ime dhammā visesabhāgiyā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.
'Ime dhammā nibbedhabhāgiyā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.
'Sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Sabbe saṅkhārā anattā’ti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Idaṃ dukkhaṃ ariyacca’nti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

'Idaṃ dukkhasamudayo1 ariyasacca’nti sotāvadhānaṃ, taṃpajānanā paññā sutamaye ñāṇaṃ.

  1. Dukkhasamudayaṃ-machasaṃ

Another source - Dhammapada

Lakkhaṇattayaṃ

(Threefold Characteristics of the Mind-Body)

"Sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā"ti, yadā paññāya passati,

Atha nibbindati dukkhe, esa maggo visuddhiyā

"Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā"ti, yadā paññāya passati,

Atha nibbindati dukkhe, esa maggo visuddhiyā

"Sabbe saṅkhārā anattā"ti, yadā paññāya passati,

Atha nibbindati dukkhe, esa maggo visuddhiyā

When one sees with wisdom that all conditioned things are transient, He overcomes unsatisfactoriness - This is the path to purity.

When one sees with wisdom that all conditioned things are unsatisfactory, He overcomes unsatisfactoriness - This is the path to purity.

When one sees with wisdom that all phenomena are soulless, He overcomes unsatisfactoriness - This is the path to purity.

Both Suttantapiṭaka and Dhammapada provide "Sabbe saṅkhārā anattā"ti that is indeed the right one, original one, I believe. Search on google book
Perhaps translation started the problem. Sankhara is translated as phenomena and later Sabbe Sankhara became Sabbe Dhamma.
Perhaps, “sabbe dhammā anattā” is also correct? But I’m not convinced. I rather agree with Ajan Chah here. Why do we agree? Because of saṅkhātadhammā and asaṅkhāta dhammā/asankhata dhamma are different. Asankhata is not associated with anatta.

'‘Sabbe saṃkhārā aniccā’'ti jānato passato paññāya ete sotā3 pithiyanti pacchijjanti na savanti na āsavanti na sandanti nappavattanti. ''Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā’'ti jānato passato paññāyete sotā pithiyanti pacchijjanti na savanti na āsavanti na sandanti nappavattanti. ''Sabbe saṅkhārā anattā’'ti jānato passato paññāyete sotā pithiyanti pacchijjanti na savanti na āsavanti na sandanti nappavattanti

Sankharadhamma - Sankhara is a dhamma.

Book: The Five Aggregates: Understanding Theravada Psychology and Soteriology
The Five Aggregates (Page 94)

In these same passages, however, the third characteristic of existence, selflessness, is an attribute of dhamma rather than saṅkhārā…

The whole sentence is so wrong with many mistakes. The word existence should not be used here. Nibbana is also existence. It exists. The word existence misrepresents the Dhamma.

I do not think that, here, the term dhamma is used in a different sense than sankhara. If the Buddha had said “sabbe sankhara anatta ,” meaning that all the conditioned phenomena are substanceless, people might have wrongly inferred that the unconditioned phenomenon (asankhatadhamma) must have a permanent entity (atta).

The author seems unaware of nirodha - cessation of sanna and vedana - sanna-vedayita-nirodha as nibbana that is asankhata dhamma.

1 Like
14

Plain wrong.

The scripture had it very clear. It is:

Sabbe Dhamma Anattati.

Sutta direct proof:
Dhammaniyama sutta

Plus, indirect proof from:
Cula saccaka Sutta

Stop spreading wrong information.

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15

Provide your sources, please.

Consider the misconception here.

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Moderation Note

Sabbe Dhammā Anattā’ti

This is a great topic, but has nothing to do with the original title. When you see a divergence, try to quote that person with a new topic. I just did that with somone questioning if there are those who exist who don’t use the commentary.

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17

Bhante, that’s what we’re discussing.

That is translated as “phenomena (dhammas)” and probably became Sabbe Dhamma later.

The assumption of the author of a book in the quote provides some clue.

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I would say Nibbāna is Anatta too. As it is not Atta.

Sabbe Dhamma Anatta ti.

Ajahn Chah may not err in his practice, but definitely off with his statement here.

19

Atta and Anatta are not related to Nibbana. They are Dukkha, which does not exist in Nibbana.

20

You keep repeating that sentence.

I have given the scriptural reference.
Sabbe Dhamma (all Dhamma) Anattati (are not to be regarded as Self, lack of self).

Now in Abhidhammattha Sangaha, this first verse stated that there were four Paramattha Dhamma - Citta, Cetasika, Rupa, and Nibbāna. These Dhammas are not something different from “Sabbe Dhamma”, since the word “Sabbe”.

Nibbāna doesn’t mean go beyond Self or Nonself. If you said Nibbāna is to go beyond these two states, that you will need to admit the existence of both Self and Nonself to be real as in ultimate sense. This is the problem.

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21

The Buddha never said “Sabbe Dhamma”… but He said, “Sebbe Sankhara”…

Dhammapada Verses 277, 278 and 279
Aniccalakkhana Vatthu
Dukkhalakkhana Vatthu
Anattalakkhana Vatthu https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=277
“Sabbe sankhara anicca” ti
yada pannaya 1 passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.

“Sabbe sankhara dukkha” ti
yada pannaya passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.

“Sabbe sankhara anatta” ti
yada pannaya passati
atha nibbindati dukkhe
esa maggo visuddhiya.

This is also good to read.
Dhammapada Verses 58 and 59
Garahadinna Vatthu The Dhammapada: Verses and Stories

Nibbana is cessation - Nirodha - of sanna and vedana.

Sanna-Vedayita-Nirodha: Ending-Sense-Perception-Sense Experience — … In [SN 4.36.11] The Buddha explains his statement that whatsoever is sense-experience, that is of the nature of pain. Then he describes three progressions leading to Arahantship: that of a progression of endings; that of a progresion of masterings; and that of a progression of calmings-down.

The Buddha, Vipassana, J.Krishnamurti: Paticcasamuppada (Law of Dependent Origination) This state of emancipation is a state beyond mind-matter ; where both vedana and sanna cease. One can experience this for a few seconds, minutes, hours, or days …

Sanna-Vedayita-Nirodha Sanna-Vedayita-Nirodha - Google Zoeken
Search sanna vedana nirodha - Google Zoeken

22

You just lied.

Plus, that is a typo. If you just cautious enough to read further… Obviously you did not.

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23

The existence of Nama Rupa - the First Noble Truth. Nibbana does not have these three marks.

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not me, not mine, not who I am

“not me, not mine, not who I am”

If you find yourself strongly identified with an experience, use a reflection about not-self. You might incline the mind towards thinking the thought: “This experience is not me, not mine, not who I am.”

Experience/vedana/feeling is constant, as constant as consciousness. We should notice this experience and understand it as experience: not me, not mine, not who I am.
That is the meaning of anatta.

25

Sabbe dhamma anatta was stated by the Buddha himself:

‘all things are not self’
‘sabbe dhamma anatta’
-SN 44.10

…The Buddha declares that “all phenomena are nonself” (sabbe dhammā anattā), which means that if one seeks a self anywhere one will not find one. Since “all phenomena” includes both the conditioned and the unconditioned, this precludes an utterly transcendent, ineffable self."
-Bhikkhi Bodhi’s footnote to the Ānanda Sutta (SN.44.10)

And here is the Dhammapada on suttacentral:

All things are not-self—
“Sabbe dhammā anattā”ti,
when this is seen with wisdom,
yadā paññāya passati;
one grows disillusioned with suffering:
Atha nibbindati dukkhe,
this is the path to purity.
esa maggo visuddhiyā.
-Dhp 273-289

This almost seems like a joke or something lol! I feel like I’m back on dhammawheel…

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26

True. Thanks for sharing Zans.

I believe even the modern Suttavadins would agree on “Sabbe Dhamma Anattati” Dhammapada verse.

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27

I quoted the dhp on this back at reply #7 six days days. But we should be patient. Some disagreement is also good for this group. Only recently did Robert and I do our first moderation operations :grinning:. That is not so bad, considering we have 60+ members and have been in operation for a few months now.

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28

To be fair here. I cant remember where, but i think i did read a paper or excerpt of a book or something that mentioned that some manuscripts do indeed say sabbe sankhara anatta rather than sabbe dhamma anatta.

Not too surprising since different ancient manuscripts often have some discrepancies since they were records written by people and not flawless tape recorders. Its perfectly possible some of these links are based on manuscripts that used the less common usage. Although most scholars do agree sabbe dhamma anatta is likely the more accurate rendering. most groups who dispute the “no self” concept of anatta just interpret dhamma differently rather than saying that it is actually all sankharas are non self.

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29

“Sabbe sankhara anatta” ti was translated as “All phenomena (dhammas) are without Self”…

That seems to be a reason why Sabbe sankhara became sabbe dhamma.

Some considered sankhara and dhamma are synonymous here. But the original Dhammapada text is Sabbe sankhara.

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Wrong. The original Dhammapada text is Sabbe Dhamma Anattati.

Sabbe Saṅkhara is appeared when Lord Buddha speaking of the characters of five aggregates in certain occasions such as

Culasaccaka Sutta:
"rūpaṁ, bhikkhave, aniccaṁ, vedanā aniccā, saññā aniccā, saṅkhārā aniccā, viññāṇaṁ aniccaṁ. Rūpaṁ, bhikkhave, anattā, vedanā anattā, saññā anattā, saṅkhārā anattā, viññāṇaṁ anattā. Sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā, sabbe dhammā anattā’ti. "

While using “Sabbe Dhamma Anattati”, all five aggregates are included by the word “Sabbe Dhamma”. Hence, there is no contradiction.

It is solely your misunderstanding about the terminology.

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31

Source 1: https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=16264 agree with me. Never read these before honestly.

When it’s intended to be excluded, you will instead see “sabbe sankhara” instead of “sabbe dhamma”. Therefore, “all compounds are devoid of self” would be “sabbe sankhara anatta”. Therefore, they are different in meaning and intent. Is the person you quoted suggesting they are synonymous?

Source 2: What is Vipassana? | Buddho.org

The Buddha:

“Sabbe sankhara anicca. Sabbe sankhara dukkha. Sabbe sankhara anatta – All phenomena are impermanent. All phenomena are unsatisfactory. All phenomena are selfless.”

Guy E. Dubois (1947) has translated various parts of the early Buddhist texts into Dutch

Venerable Narada Thera’s Dhammapada version is the following: Fermentations (asava) and their eradication In Theravada Buddhism – drarisworld

Sabbe sankhara anicca – All conditioned phenomena are impermanent
Sabbe sankhara dukkha – All conditioned phenomena are suffering
Sabbe dhamma anatta – All phenomena (dhammas ) are without self (9)

  1. Narada Thera 2000, The Dhammapada, Verses 277-279, Buddhist Cultural Centre, Dehiwala, Sri Lanka.

Venerable Narada Thera’s Dhammapada version is different from Burmese version:

Source 3: Sabbe sankhara anatta in books: the same in Mahayanist version, possibly because Mahayanists made a copy for themselves from ancient Theravada.

1940: Buddhism in England Volumes 15-16

1936: ### The Maha-Bodhi - Volume 44 - Page 418

Yes, it should be repeated instead of changing it to dhamma.

32

I’m not sure what you are getting at here. The texts say:

“Sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā”ti, …
“Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā”ti, …
“Sabbe dhammā anattā”ti, …
SuttaCentral

ti means basically “end quote”, it has nothing to do with the meaning of the lines (apart from that they are in quotes, of course).

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