In the Atthasālinī rapture is classified under the formations aggregate, whilst bliss under the feelings aggregate. Can anyone point me to a sutta reference or Abhidhamma reference which supports this, or explains why this is the case?
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This is correct. Do you know Abhidhamma that the Atthasālinī is explaining ?
This point is very common for Abhidhamma and cetasika.
Saṅkhāra is big and includes all cetasikas of a citta not included in the 3 other nāma khaṇḍas.
It is a little bit like the 3rd precept ( to follow brahmacariya way ) for novice monks. It is huge, but often given a single word such as celibacy.
The suttas should explain sukha according to the vedanā aggregate, but it is in the abhidhamma as well.
I think you might be getting caught up in translation problems like “feelings aggregate” which can be confused with touch sensation.
Both are very clear, especially the sukha cetasika.
If you wish to know about abhidhamma as it relates to meditation, the best thing to do is to read Knowing & Seeing, by Ven Pa-Auk Sayadawgyi, especially after the samatha section.
The first part of Dhammasangani classifies piti under sankhara
First it lists the elements of a beneficial thought in the sense sphere, then it classifies the elements into the 4 khandhas (excluding rupa).
[60] (i) What on that occasion is the skandha of feeling ?
The mental pleasure, the mental ease, which there is on
that occasion,* the pleasurable, easeful sensation which is
bom of contact with thought, the pleasant, easeful feeling
born of contact with thought— this is the skandha of feeling
that there then is (§§ 3, 10, 18).
[62] (iii) What on that occasion is the skandha synergies ? ← sankhara
(i) Contact,
(ii) volition.
(iii) application of mind,
(iv) sustained application,
(v) zest, ← piti
Feelings are only either happiness, unhappiness, or neutral. Since there is already sukha, it does not make sense that piti is a feeling because it would mean the same thing.
So piti should be something else than feeling. I think it might be better to translate piti as excitement, as rapture/joy sounds more like a feeling.
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Translations are confusing.
As I said in the Pali category why I learned. “Teacher said to read more than one translation if you don’t want to learn Pali”. (if you do, you will see the need).
I don’t think reading in Pali is that much deeper.(or at least at my level). I think it removes translation ambiguities of technical words .
There are no issues with sukha and pīti in the Pali language
Sukha is always one of the three vedana. (Pleasant)
Or we can simply watch our mind and see for ourselves what is this thing called piti and what are its characteristics.
Yes… that is part of the pa-auk or vsm method. But need a roadmap.
Good householder,
the “problem” here may be found in the translation of pīti as rapture or similar but actually means “saturated/satisfied”. Maybe texts will then, when applied, fit better according ones perceptions.
…joy (of letting go) => satisfaction (certain release) => ease/stillness => heal => “unification”…