I want to understand the novice and monk rules system better.
Are there any offences for novices like there are for monks?
If a novice plays or watches someone play a video game, is that an offense? If the novice becomes a lay person without confessing the offense, does he still need to worry about it? Can he still go to heaven?
I heard ordination is invalid if someone doesn’t pronounce the three refuge sentences correctly. What if someone is not sure whether they had the right pronunciation when they ordained as a novice? Is that something to be concerned about?
What about monks? In Buddhist countries, there are many people who ordain temporarily in local monasteries which may not follow all the rules. If a monk commits an offense and then becomes a lay person, can he still go to heaven? Does he need to confess the offense as a lay person?
I remember reading that a monk who dies with an offense has only two destinations and that it prevents them from attaining magga phala. Does this only applies to monks who remain as monks? What about monks who ordain temporarily and accept money, and then disrobe without confessing? If they do a lot of good deeds, can they still go to heaven and can they still succeed in meditation without confessing as a lay person?
Yes… The first 5 offences, he needs to retake his tisarana and 5 precepts.
The other ones are danda kamma. He tells his preceptor and he will carry water or sand as a form of punishment. It could be a small or large amount of work…
You should try your best to pronounce correctly… however, there are different “dialects” of Pāḷi from different countries. You should do either in international pāḷi or the version that you ordain in. You need to pay attention to long and short vowels, aspirated non-aspirated consonants and palatals. These are often correct across dialects, but within the dialect
akusala is akusala. You should never do it. It leads to unwholesome results and even with the bad luck of the draw, unwholesome birth. It is never justified. Knowing the rules and using money is very bad and disrespectful. It is better to become an anagarika if you need to touch money. (8 precepts). I might be ordaining an anagarika this November.
As for disrobing and the future. A pārājika monk who removes the unjustified clothes and dresses as a lay person or asks for novice monkhood and is granted, can attain maggaphala.
Hello Venerable Sir, thank you for answering. If his preceptor lets the novice play video games and then the novice becomes a lay person again, does he need to do any form of punishment as a lay person to purify himself?
Another question I have is if a monk observes all the rules, is he safe from any wrong bodily and verbal actions? Like, are there any other akusala bodily and verbal actions that are not covered in the rules?
Is it also bad kamma if a lay person or a monk engage in samphappalāpī? Is it an offense for novices and monks? How do we know what kind of speech is appropriate and what kind of speech is not appropriate?
Can an anagarika stay at home and continue his work or must he stay at a monastery?
Yes Venerable Sir, when I was really young, I ordained as a novice temporarily as part of the Burmese tradition. It was more than 10 years ago. Now I am a lay person. If I do ordain again, I would like to ordain at Pa-auk. I think it’s the best place to ordain in Myanmar.
I remember reading one sutta where it says ascetics and brahmins who accept money do not shine. Is this meant to be taken metaphorically or is that referring to an invisible light that only those with divine eyes can see? So, should nuns also abstain from using money. I think all ascetics should abstain from using money.
I wish being an ascetic or a monk was as easy as it was in the past especially in jataka stories where one could just give up a kingdom, go to the Himalayas, and attain super powers.
@bksubhuti
Also Venerable Sir,
If someone ordains as a novice again, does he need to be punished for playing or watching someone play video games when he was a temporary novice many years ago? Or can he just forget about it and he doesn’t need to do anything about it when he ordains again as a novice?
I heard that monks who broke the rules and became a lay person have to confess their offense when they ordain again as a monk. My understanding is while they are a lay person, the offense that they committed when they were a monk doesn’t stop them from attaining magga phala, but as soon as they ordain again as a monk, the offense will reappear and prevent them from attaining magga phala unless they confess the offense. Is this correct?
1598 Mp, commenting on 1:53, discusses this passage more fully as follows: “Those bhikkhus who vomited hot blood had committed pārājika offenses. Those who returned to lay life had been going around violating the lesser and minor training rules. And those who attained arahantship had purified their behavior. The Teacher’s discourse was fruitful for all three. [Question:] Granted it was fruitful for those who attained arahantship, how was it fruitful for the others? [Reply:] Because if they had not heard this discourse, [the first kind] would have become heedless and would not have been able to abandon their condition. Their evil behavior would have increased and dragged them down to the realms of misery. But when they heard this discourse, they were filled with a sense of urgency. Having abandoned their condition, some became sāmaṇeras (novices), fulfilled the ten precepts, applied themselves to careful attention, and became stream-enterers, once-returners, or non-returners, while some were reborn in the deva world. Thus it was fruitful even for those who had committed pārājikas. If the others had not heard this discourse, as time went on, they would have gradually committed saṅghādisesas and pārājikas. They would have been reborn in the realms of misery and experienced great suffering. But having heard it, thinking that they could not fulfill the practice all their lives, they gave up the training and returned to lay life. They became settled in the three refuges, observed the five precepts, fulfilled the duty of a lay follower, and became stream-enterers, once-returners, or non-returners, while some were reborn in the deva world. Thus the discourse was fruitful for them, too.”
Even though pārājika is so heavy, people might think, “What is the point of stopping doing wrong?” It all adds up. One who is not a monk who pretends to be a monk is also committing a heavy kamma. This is one reason why I have not made a public video on how to wear the monk’s robes. I just don’t want to tempt anyone even though there are other videos out there.
But any smallest minutest wrong should be avoided no matter how much bad kamma has been accumulated. When the last of the bad original kamma’s energy is used up, there still remains that extra bad stuff he has done. All bad kamma should be avoided. Those who abandoned their way realizing this are already following the Buddhas Teachings. Those who do not are far away.
No. Only pārājika and saṅghādisesa offences carry over to this life in terms of ordaining again. A pārājika monk may not ordain as a bhikkhu again in this life (but next or future lives are okay). The one who commits saṅghadisesa who has not purified that offence before disrobing must clear that offence through the community (saṅgha) penance and probation system immediately after ordaining. I knew one monk who did not fully realize the nature of what he did wrong and did not confess for 9 months. He needed to do 9 months of probation. When he heard about what he needed to do to clear his offence, he disrobed. However, later, he realized that the monk life was more important than the punishment. He spent the 10 months (doing one month extra just in case) and did his time. Many monks laughed at him everyday because his time was so long. At the probation monastery, he needs to chant his offence and days concealed one by one until a pakkha, and then month by month. It takes a long time for him to chant what he did wrong to the community. I remember ordered sprite bottles to celebrate his release from this probation when it was completed.
The last I heard, he is still a monk and now. Because he went through this during my first round at Pa-Auk (before 2007) and I then re-ordained in Sri Lanka, he is now senior than me. He is an exceptional monk, very focused (as you would expect) and I respect his efforts to clear his old offence from when he first re-ordained. This is what you would expect from a monk who takes such a humbling endeavor to fix his wrong doings.
NOTE: It should be noted that his original ordination had no suitable teacher or training. It was because of this that the original problem occurred.
It’s too bad the senior monks didn’t put a stop to that. It’s true that he did put a burden on his community, but helping an honest monk like this is a sacred duty given by the Buddha.
If you have time, could you point out where this can be found in the Vinaya? I’m curious how it is laid down.
