From what I understand hell may last an extremely long time, aeons even, but is always temporary and beings there always eventually cease and are reborn in another realm. Is that correct?
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Right. No permanent stay in the hell realms.
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Thank you Robert. Something I read in a conversation on here made me think eternity was being implied. It was a while ago, though, and I may have misremembered or misinterpreted.
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Beings can spend a long time in the hells. But eventually they make their way to a human birth when a meritorious deed has the opportunity to bear its fruit.
Sometimes the time in hell is brief such as Queen Malika who only stayed in hell for 7 days before rebirth as a deva.
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Beings are impermanent in every realm. But it can be seen that there appear to be more beings in the lower realms than higher realms because it is easier to do evil than do good actions. Ignorance rules the universe it appears and escape is not easy. Use this birth to your best advantage.
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Correct. all realms are impermenent. so heaven and hell are also all impermanent. only nibbana is permanent
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@RobertK isn’t there some hell that survives the periodic dissolution of the universe? I was taking the existence of that to mean those in that hell never leave it, even upon universal destruction.
No, they will eventually be reborn in a plance outside hell - even if they are reborn many times in various hells.
There is another aspect though:
Those who hold wrong views become “a stump in the round”
The Discourse on the Fruits of Recluseship, trans. Bhikkhu Bodhi, Part Two: Commentarial Exegesis, pp. 79–81.
CY. When people accept these theories and then recite and investigate them while sitting in their day-quarters or night-quarters, wrong mindfulness becomes established, taking as object (one of the three views): “No evil is done,” or “There is no cause or condition,” or “The dead are annihilated.” The mind becomes one-pointed. The impulsions run their course.28 At the first impulsion these people are curable; and so too at the second, etc. But at the seventh they cannot be cured even by the Buddhas; they cannot be turned back.
Someone might espouse one view among these three, another two, another three. But whether one espouses one, two, or three views, one adopts a wrong view with fixed consequences. One has met an obstruction to the path to heaven and an obstruction to the path to liberation. It is impossible for him to reach heaven immediately following this present existence, much less to reach liberation. This being has become a stump in the round of existence, a watchman of the earth.29 Generally, one like this does not emerge from existence.
Therefore a person with discernment
Desirous of his spiritual growth
Should keep far away from such harmful people
As one would avoid a venomous snake.SUB. CY. “Wrong mindfulness becomes established” (micchā-sati santiṭṭhati): wrong mindfulness is the craving associated with the theory, and it is this which becomes established. For through oral tradition one first apprehends the general meaning of the view “by doing so there is no evil,” etc. One then ponders that meaning with various reasons until it appears as cogent to the mind as if it possessed concrete form. By becoming accustomed to such a view over a long period of time, one arrives at a reflective acquiescence in it, thinking “It is true.” When, again and again, one habitually indulges in and cultivates the view that has been accepted as true through reflective acquiescence, wrong thought directs craving to that view, with wrong effort reinforcing the craving; thus one apprehends things as having a nature which they do not really have. Thus it is the craving associated with the theory that is called wrong mindfulness.
“The mind becomes one-pointed”: by gaining such particular conditions as applied thought, etc., the mind becomes steadied on its object; it abandons diffuseness and becomes one-pointed, as if absorbed. “Wrong concentration” (micchā-samādhi) is spoken of under the heading of “mind.” For that concentration, gaining the power of the development through special conditions, performs the function of pervertedly concentrating the mind on its object, as in the case of sharpshooting archers, etc.
“The impulsions run their course” (javanāni javanti): after the preliminary series of impulsions have occurred in that mode a number of times, in the last series of impulsions [which forms the conviction in the truth of the view] seven impulsions run their course. “At the first impulsion they are curable,” etc.: this simply shows the intrinsic nature of things. For at that moment no one is capable of curing them.
N. SUB. CY. (They cannot be cured) because, while they are standing in those states of impulsion, it is impossible to prevent the arising of the seventh impulsion. Thus the process of consciousness occurs so quickly that it is impossible to cure them (at that moment) by means of exhortation and instruction. Thus the commentator says: “They cannot be cured even by the Buddhas.”30
SUB. CY. “Someone might espouse one view,” etc.: someone who adheres to and habitually indulges in only one view espouses only one view. Those who adhere to and habitually indulge in two or three views espouse two or three views. By this statement the commentator shows that the entire preceding discussion of these views, which defined and explained them in terms of their common denial of both (kamma and result), was only a preliminary. But when (the adoption of a particular view) leads one into the fixed course of wrongness,31 that view is not combined with other views; since it is established through its own colligation of conditions, it does not arise together with (other views) just as the distinguished achievements (the jhānas, etc.) do not arise simultaneously with different objects.
“But whether one espouses one, two, or three views”: by this the commentator shows that the three views have the same strength and yield the same fruit [that is, they obstruct the attainment of heaven (and the noble path)]. Therefore, though the three views arise in a single person uncombined, when one yields its results the other two lend their strength to it.
“A stump in the round”: this statement is one whose meaning requires interpretation (neyyattha), not one whose meaning is explicit (nītattha). Thus in the Papañcasūdanī (the commentary to the Majjhima Nikāya) it is said: “Is his future (as a result of his wrong view) fixed only with regard to a single existence (the next one) or also with regard to subsequent existences? It is fixed only with regard to a single existence (the next one). But because he repeatedly indulges in that view, he will approve of the same view in subsequent existences too” (M-a 3:85). Since the unwholesome is feeble and powerless, not strong and powerful like the wholesome, the wrong view is said to be fixed only with regard to a single existence (the next one). Otherwise, the fixed course of wrongness would be absolutely final like the fixed course of rightness,32 but it is not absolutely final.
Query: If so, then how can the expression “a stump in the round” be applied (to the one who adopts such views)?
Reply: Because he habitually indulges (in that view). As in the Aṅguttara Nikāya it is said: “The fool who has sunk down even once is sunken indeed” (AN 7:15/IV 11), so here the expression “a stump in the round” is used in the same way. For he espouses such a view because of certain conditions; thence it cannot be denied that sometimes, because of the opposite conditions, he may manage to emerge from that view. Therefore, in the commentary it is said: “Generally one like this does not emerge from existence.”
N. SUB. CY. The statement (“This being has become a stump in the round of existence”) is one whose meaning requires interpretation, and not one whose meaning is explicit, because the meaning has to be indicated by explaining: “He becomes ‘a stump in the round’ because generally one like this does not emerge from existence, since by habitually indulging in this or that view he approves of the same view in a subsequent existence too.” But it must be added that he does not become “a stump in the round” in the sense that the fixed course of wrongness is absolutely final.
Notes
28. The javana or impulsion phase in the Abhidhammic account of the process of consciousness is the phase at which the mind originates its kammically determinate actions. This phase, according to the Abhidhamma, consists of seven occasions of javana consciousness.
29. The phrases “a stump in the round” (vaṭṭakhāṇu) and “watchman of the earth” (paṭhavigopaka) are probably intended to suggest that such a person remains stuck in saṃsāra, hindered by his wrong view even from finding the path to liberation.
30. These remarks refer to the fixity in the sequence of javanas within their series and do not mean that the person cannot be led away from his wrong views at a later time.
31. The “fixed course of wrongness” (micchattaniyāma) is a course of unwholesome kamma strong enough to determine an unfortunate rebirth in the immediately following existence. The point of this discussion is that although a theorist may at different times adopt all three of the wrong views being expounded, when he adopts any view firmly enough to constitute a descent into the course of wrongness, the object of his adherence can only be a single one among the three views and not two or three together.
32. The “fixed course of rightness” refers to the irreversible course entered upon by one who has attained the noble path.
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If we say “Nibbana is permanent” it sounds like there would be a “thing”…something, somewhere.
Maybe we can say: “Nibbana is a permanent solution”…then it’s not a “thing”..and leads in wrong direction.
@RobertK thanks. So is there a hell that survives dissolution at the end of a world cycle, even if no one is there forever? Is the hell permanent as a location?
There are many different hells and it is hard to imagine a time when at least a few wouldn’t be available. Remember the Vimanavatthu decribes the mansions already waiting for the arrival of those who have done good deeds.
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Ah. I was remembering someone on here naming a specific one. Perhaps I misremembered. Thanks @RobertK