On Suññatasamādhi in Commentaries

[Dōgen]

And what is the path that leads to the not-fabricated?
“Katamo ca, bhikkhave, asaṅkhatagāmimaggo?

Emptiness immersion; signless immersion; undirected immersion—this is called, monks ‘the path that leads to the not-fabricated’”
Suññato samādhi, animitto samādhi, appaṇihito samādhi—ayaṁ vuccati, bhikkhave, asaṅkhatagāmimaggo SN43.4

I was wondering, friends and venerables, are there any details on these samadhis in the commentaries or vism?

Are they related to arupa-jhanas and/or cessation of perception & feeling, or classified under something altogether different?

[HappinessSeeker]

Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think signless immersion is referring to entering into fruition consciousness (phalasamāpattiṃ).

[Ceisiwr]

Visuddhimagga CHAPTER XXI Purification by Knowledge and Vision of the Way

In short they are three gateways to nibbāna. You either take nibbāna as object by way of focusing on impermanence, which leads to the signless samādhi. By way of dukkha which leads to the Wishless/Desireless (basically not intending this way or that) samādhi or by way of anatta which leads to the Emptiness Samādhi.

[Namyal]

Difficult to say, Commentary on this series of suttas does not say. Commentaries often doesn’t repeat what was pointed out somewhere else. Should be very carefully investigated.

It could be Vipassana as in

suññato samādhītiādīhi tīhipi samādhīhi vipassanāva kathitā

Or it could be Lokuttara Samadhi as in

asuññatattakārakānaṃ kilesānaṃ abhāvā
vipassanāgamanena maggasamādhi suññato nāma hoti

nimittakārakakilesābhāvā. vipassanāgamanena maggasamādhi animitto nāma hoti

paṇidhikārakakilesābhāvā. vipassanāgamanena maggasamādhi appaṇihito nāma hoti

[RobertK]

@Namyal

asuññatattakārakānaṃ kilesānaṃ abhāvā
vipassanāgamanena maggasamādhi suññato nāma hoti

nimittakārakakilesābhāvā. vipassanāgamanena maggasamādhi animitto nāma hoti

paṇidhikārakakilesābhāvā. vipassanāgamanena maggasamādhi appaṇihito nāma hoti

Appreciated but please give the citations, i.e. exact name source.

[Dōgen]

@Ceisiwr

Visuddhimagga CHAPTER XXI Purification by Knowledge and Vision of the Way

In short they are three gateways to nibbāna. You either take nibbāna as object by way of focusing on impermanence, which leads to the signless samādhi. By way of dukkha which leads to the Wishless/Desireless (basically not intending this way or that) samādhi or by way of anatta which leads to the Emptiness Samādhi.

Thank you for this Ceisiwr.

There’s interesting notes on it in Vism XXI:

But although stated in this way, insight knowledge is not literally signless because there is no abandoning of the sign of formations [as formed, here, as distinct from their sign as impermanent and so on]. It is however literally void and desireless. And it is at the moment of the noble path that the liberation is distinguished, and that is done according to insight knowledge’s way of arrival at the path. That, should be understood, is why only two liberations are stated [in the Abhidhamma], namely, the desireless and the void.

The long discussion on why signless path is inadmissable is very interesting (it’s quite long to post here), paraphrasing: It mentions how dukkha can give rise to desireless, anatta can give rise to emptiness, however, contemplation on impermanence is not self-consistent apparently.

It’s quite a thick section with interesting notes. It also quotes Patis II 68, which I’m not sure where in Patis it refers to, it’s not a cataloguing system I’m familiar with.

[Namyal]

@Dōgen

The long discussion on why signless path is inadmissable

No friend, it is not a matter of being inadmissable or of any inconsistency. Rather the Abhidhamma(specifically, The Dhammasangani, ) does not mention the signless path.( Reasons are explained both in the Dhammasangani commentary and Visuddhimagga and may be other places also)

[Ceisiwr]

@Dōgen

The long discussion on why signless path is inadmissable is very interesting (it’s quite long to post here), paraphrasing: It mentions how dukkha can give rise to desireless, anatta can give rise to emptiness, however, contemplation on impermanence is not self-consistent apparently.

Its because the Abhidhamma and commentators don’t consider the signless to be able to transcend its object, since the focus is on impermanence (and so on the rise and fall of dhammas). The commentary though does say that according to the sutta method there is a signless path.

[Namyal]

@Ceisiwr

Its because the Abhidhamma and commentators don’t consider the signless to be able to transcend its object, since the focus is on impermanence (and so on the rise and fall of dhammas). The commentary though does say that according to the sutta method there is a signless path.

I apologize. But this is misleading.

For example dukkhanupassana ñāṇa and anattanupassana ñāṇa also sees the rise and fall.

But aniccanupassana ñāṇa cannot be called ‘animitta’ in a nippariyāya sense. Hence the path that arises by way of aniccanupassana is not mentioned in the Abhidhamma. Which is the nippariyāya desana of the Blessed One.

[Dōgen]

@Ceisiwr

The commentary though does say that according to the sutta method there is a signless path.

I think AN11.9 is an interesting note on this:

‘Homage to you, O thoroughbred!
‘Namo te purisājañña,
Homage to you, supreme among men!
namo te purisuttama;
We don’t understand
Yassa te nābhijānāma,
the basis of your absorption.’”
yampi nissāya jhāyasī’”ti.

Where in commentaries do you find it?