Meaning of darathā

In MN 121, translated by Bhikkhu Sujato, it says:

There is only this modicum of stress, namely that associated with the six sense fields dependent on this body and conditioned by life.’

Darathā here is translated as stress. My question is: Does darathā fall under dukkhadukkha(ta)?

1 Like

Good to see you posting again Sobhana!
In this sutta the passages mentioning daratha are talking about the disturbances (of mind)- daratha- at various levels of increasing subtlety including even higher jhanas.
And the last section of the sutta you cite has this (Bhikkhu Bodhi translation):

  1. "He understands thus: 'Whatever disturbances there might
    be dependent on the taint of sensual desire, those are not present here; whatever disturbances there might be dependent on
    the taint of being, those are not present here; whatever disturbances there might be dependent on the taint of ignorance,
    those are not present here.there is present only this amount of
    disturbance, namely, that connected with the six bases that are
    > dependent on this body and conditioned by life.
    He understands: ‘This field of perception is void of the taint of sensual
    desire; this field of perception is void of the taint of being; this
    field of perception is void of the taint of ignorance. There is present only this non-voidness, namely, that connected with the six
    bases that are dependent on this body and conditioned by life.’
    Thus he regards it as void of what is not there, but as to what
    remains there he understands that which is present thus: ‘This is
    present.’ Thus, Ananda, this is his genuine, [109] undistorted,
    pure descent into voidness, supreme and unsurpassed.114

So this final section is talking about the arahat.
The type of disturbance here is not dukkhadukkha(ta) but still there is sankhara dukkata until khandha parinibbana.

The Nettippakaraṇa :

*Herein, the world is, at one time or another, somewhat free from to the unsatisfactoriness of pain (dukkhadukkhatā) as well as the unsatisfactoriness of change (vipariṇāmadukkhatā). Why is that? Because there are those in the world who have little sickness and are long-lived. But only the nibbāna component with no fuel remaining (anupādisesa nibbānadhātu) liberates from the unsatisfactoriness of fabrications (saṅkhāradukkhatā)

see this thread for a related discussion.
If all conditioned phenomena are dukkha, how can an arahant no longer have dukkha mentally? - General Theravada topics - Classical Theravāda (classicaltheravada.org)

4 Likes

So you take darathā solely as an expression of saṅkhāradukkhatā?

1 Like

I think darutha (disturbance) in this sutta is not exactly a synonym for saṅkhāradukkhatā (or dukkha). Here it is referring to subtle levels of mindstate including the arupa jhanas and leading onto sunnataphala-samapatti, fruition attainment of the arahat. Each different level, although extremely refined and indeed wonderful, is shown to still have subtle drawbacks in comparison to the succeeding. Until finally is described the true sunnata.

Thus, Ananda, this is his genuine, undistorted,
pure descent into voidness, supreme and unsurpassed.

But even here, this unsurpassed voidness, still has the six bases dependent on body and conditioned by life. So the texts have Sopādisesa nibbānadhatu, the extinction of defilements and the anupādisesa nibbānadhātu .

44. The Nibbana-element {Iti 2.17; Iti 38}

This was said by the Lord…

"Bhikkhus, there are these two Nibbana-elements. What are the two? The Nibbana-element with residue left and the Nibbana-element with no residue left.

"What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left.

"Now what, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with no residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant… completely released through final knowledge. For him, here in this very life, all that is experienced, not being delighted in, will be extinguished. That, bhikkhus, is called the Nibbana-element with no residue left.

“These, bhikkhus, are the two Nibbana-elements.”

2 Likes

Perhaps @jansen can translate completely

This is a case where you need the sub commentary to understand what the commentary says. It seems to more or less say that it is a lack of calmness, or gross turbulence caused by looking wrongly at the man as a man.

Here is what the commentary says.
uparipaṇṇāsa-aṭṭhakathā page 108 para 176

ye assu darathāti ye ca pavattadarathā vā kilesadarathā vā gāmasaññaṃ paṭicca bhaveyyuṃ, te idha araññasaññāya na santi. dutiyapadepi eseva nayo.

tika says this… para 176

pavattadarathāti tathārūpāya passaddhiyā abhāvato oḷārikadhammappavattisiddhā darathā.
kilesadarathāti anunayapaṭighasambhavā kilesadarathā.
dutiyapadeti "ye assu darathā manussasaññaṃ paṭiccā"ti imasmiṃ pade. manasikārasantatāya, – "nāyaṃ pubbe viya oḷārikā, dhammappavattī"ti saṅkhāradassanadarathānaṃ sukhumatā sallahukatā ca caritatthāti āha "pavattadarathamattā atthī"ti.

yaṃ kilesadarathajātaṃ, taṃ imissā darathasaññāya na hotīti yojanā. pavattadarathamattaṃ avasiṭṭhaṃ hoti, vijjamānameva atthi idanti pajānātīti yojanā.

3 Likes

The Venerable Bhikkhu Anālayo, in his The Signless and the Deathless, comments on the term daratha:

The reference to “weariness,” 疲勞, has its Pāli counterpart in daratha, for which Cone 2010, 375 lists “being hot or inflamed; distress; exhaustion.” Particularly helpful for the present context appears to be an occurrence of the term in Nidd I 344,6, commenting on a reference in Sn 915 to nibbāti, which is glossed as sabbe darathe … sameti upasameti vūpasameti nibbāpeti paṭipassambheti. Another relevant occurrence would be Cp 142 at Cp 13,4: sabbaṃ sameti darathaṃ, yathā sītodakaṃ viya. Taking a lead from these occurrences in later texts invites opting for the nuance of “being hot or inflamed,” understood in the present context as expressing an opposition to the coolness of Nirvana. In other words, rather than intending an actual “distress” or alternatively “disturbance,” terminology which seems rather strong for the subtle and refined meditative experiences under description, in the present context the term daratha could be taken to convey that, however profound, these meditative experiences still fall short of the final goal of Nirvana; they still partake of the hotness of being conditioned and fall short of the coolness of the unconditioned.

2 Likes