I am training in the Pa-Auk method. However, I have heard that even at the Pa-Auk meditation center, entering the first jhāna is difficult. This makes me wonder whether it is possible for a layperson to attain jhāna. If a layperson practices meditation for about 2–3 hours a day and minimizes external interactions as much as possible, would it be possible to enter jhāna? If not, how much practice would be necessary?
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Yes lay people can also attain jhanas. In my opinion, it’d be best if you can meditate at a meditation retreat because you would have more time to meditate and the environment would be supportive of peace and calmness.
Yes definitely…just keep doing that and keep following all precept… eventually it will happen
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Laypeople who come to pa-auk can attain for sure. I know they can, I have heard their interviews. Can they attain on their own… it is difficult if it is the first time. If they attain and do at a meditation center, there is a possibility they can attain and maintain.
It is like blowing up a balloon the first time or the other subsequent times.
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For those who are able to, is it possible to maintain jhana even when returning to an ordinary lay life? Or will it be necessary to adopt a simpler, more secluded, and tranquil lifestyle?
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Anger and lust and destroy your jhana. It is up to he person. Even a monk I know lost his jhana when he tried staying in a dangerous forest with a kuti that only had 3 walls (by design). He still has not recovered last time I asked. I think it has been quite a long time since this happened.
Just try to get it with the right conditions. The Buddha said even a moment is worth a thousand years (if I’m not confusing the dhp verse).
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Here is the quote: dhp 110-112
110. Better it is to live one day virtuous and meditative than to live a hundred years immoral and uncontrolled.
111. Better it is to live one day wise and meditative than to live a hundred years foolish and uncontrolled.
112. Better it is to live one day strenuous and resolute than to live a hundred years sluggish and dissipated.
Original Pāḷi
yo ca vassasataṃ jīve, dussīlo asamāhito,
ekāhaṃ jīvitaṃ seyyo, sīlavantassa jhāyino.
111.
yo ca vassasataṃ jīve, duppañño asamāhito,
ekāhaṃ jīvitaṃ seyyo, paññavantassa jhāyino.
112.
yo ca vassasataṃ jīve, kusīto hīnavīriyo,
ekāhaṃ jīvitaṃ seyyo, vīriyamārabhato daḷhaṃ.
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True bhante …but apart from that do u think how much time as a lay follower we give for meditation also going to effect our jhana ?.
We can hardly give 1 to 2 hr daily that to max .
Minimum it’s half hour.
Rest of the time we engage in our work…
As a meditative person or as a jhana achiever that person may not engage himself in entertainment. Full day he might think about his jhana or meditation and perform his daily job…
I know some stories about hindu yogis. This people achieved some jhana (although Hindus don’t differentiate various stages of jhana in details) and they also do there daily jobs …
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Hello Venerable Sir, if a person lost his nimitta or jhana, is it supposed to take a long time to regain that or can they regain it easily within a short time?
Does even a single thought of lust and anger destroy jhana or nimitta?
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It is difficult to answer these questions. You will just need to get there yourself. See what you can do to attain, and best to keep those conditions that helped you get there. If you lose it, surely going back to those conditions can help. However, there is a mention in the vsm of samadhi falling down. It uses the simile of a cow that falls down the hill and it is very difficult to get back up. (This case was used for going to second jhana before one is ready or has a “firm footing”.). In any case, fallen down samadhi is similar.
Just make the conditions. Keep those conditions when you get them.
If you lose what you have, try to go back to those causes that gave you those conditions. If it comes back, good. If it does not come back, understand samsara and conditions and keep trying for the long term goal.
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Here is the quote from vsm p146:
- Hence the Blessed One said: “Bhikkhus, suppose there were a foolish stupid mountain cow, with no knowledge of fields and no skill in walking on craggy mountains, who thought: ‘What if I walked in a direction I never walked in before, ate grass I never ate before, drank water I never drank before?’ and without placing her forefoot properly she lifted up her hind foot; then she would not walk in the direction she never walked in before or eat the grass she never ate before or drink the water she never drank before, and also she would not get back safely to the place where she had thought, ‘What if I walked in a direction I never walked in before … drank water I never drank before?’ Why is that? Because that mountain cow was foolish and stupid with no knowledge of fields and no skill in walking on craggy mountains. So too, bhikkhus, here is a certain foolish stupid bhikkhu with no knowledge of fields and no skill, quite secluded from sense desires, secluded from unprofitable things, in entering upon and dwelling in the first jhána, which is accompanied by applied thought and sustained thought with happiness and bliss born of seclusion; he does not repeat, develop or cultivate that sign or properly establish it. He thinks: ‘What if with the subsiding of applied and sustained thought I entered upon and dwelt in the second jhána, which is … with happiness and bliss born of concentration?’ [154] He is unable with the subsiding of applied and sustained thought to enter upon and dwell in the second jhána, which is … with happiness and bliss born of concentration. Then he thinks: ‘What if, quite secluded from sense desires, secluded from unprofitable things, I entered upon and dwelt in the first jhána, which is … with happiness and bliss born of seclusion?’ He is unable, quite secluded from sense desires, secluded from unprofitable things, to enter upon and dwell in the first jhána which is … with happiness and bliss born of seclusion. This bhikkhu is called one who has slipped between the two, who has fallen between the two, just like the foolish stupid mountain cow with no knowledge of fields and no skill in walking on craggy mountains …” (A IV 418–19).
Note: When pasting pdf text… use this link here to remove line breaks.
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Yup understand bhante thanks
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This makes me scared, Venerable Sir. I don’t want to lose nimitta, jhana, or superpowers if I attain them in the future. Maybe it’s not so bad that I can’t attain nimitta or jhana right now because I don’t know if I would be able to maintain them while still going to college.
I wonder if the meditators who lost nimitta or jhana were able to regain them eventually.
From this I learned that it will be hard to attain jhana if I get into romantic relationships so I should stay away from that. I also learned that meditating in a safe monastery is better than meditating alone in a very dangerous forest.
Thank you for the information, Venerable Sir.
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If I specifically remember. The conditions was like …I was totally away from social media and mobile use …and pornogrphiac material…it’s been many years and it’s seems very hard for me …
But as I understand cause. I should work on it …I just need a kick.
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Did you attain the first jhana? If so, what experiences did you encounter if you don’t mind me asking?
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Not first jhana …but am sure it was nimmita appeared…I saw White ball …I felt lightness and my breath was stopped…it’s just for 3 to 4 sec …and after that nothing…
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MN44
Take a mendicant who, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.
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That’s interesting. I hope you can regain that. If you can attain it the first time, you can surely do it again. Good luck!
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I was to young that time and I was purely following practice that time …not distracted I was doing meditation OM chanting for atlist 30 min a day …and after 9 to 10 months of practice I experienced that result…
And I lost that very day due to over excitement and wrong view…
But it helped me to gain faith in Buddha’s path …and becouse of that practice am able to understand Buddha’s words…
Am happy that I learned dhamma atlist.
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So, you achieved the nimitta by chanting Om and focusing on it? Did you also focus on the breath?
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