Is EBT Against Vinaya?

The EBT’rs often deny anything outside the four Nikāyas as real (and not everything from that, either). If that blanket rule is followed, then they are even refuting the dhammapada!
In any case, they are criticizing the Dhamma.

pācittiyapāḷi p.189

439. ‘‘yo pana bhikkhu pātimokkhe uddissamāne evaṃ vadeyya – ‘kiṃ panimehi khuddānukhuddakehi sikkhāpadehi uddiṭṭhehi, yāvadeva kukkuccāya vihesāya vilekhāya saṃvattantī’ti, sikkhāpadavivaṇṇake pācittiya’’nti.
439. “If a bhikkhu, while the Pātimokkha is being recited, should say, ‘What good are these minor and lesser training rules when recited? They lead only to remorse, to annoyance, to mental vexation,’ he incurs a pācittiya for disparaging a training rule.”

440. yo panāti yo yādiso…pe… bhikkhūti…pe… ayaṃ imasmiṃ atthe adhippeto bhikkhūti.
440. “Whatever bhikkhu…” means whoever, of whatever kind… (and so on) … “bhikkhu” means… (and so on) … in this context, the bhikkhu referred to is this one.

pātimokkhe uddissamāneti uddisante vā uddisāpente vā sajjhāyaṃ vā karonte.
“While the Pātimokkha is being recited” means while one is reciting, or having it recited, or doing a recitation.

189evaṃ vadeyyāti – ‘‘kiṃ panimehi khuddānukhuddakehi sikkhāpadehi uddiṭṭhehi, yāvadeva kukkuccāya vihesāya vilekhāya saṃvattantīti.
“Should say thus” means, “What good are these minor and lesser training rules when recited? They lead only to remorse, to annoyance, to mental vexation.”

‘‘ye imaṃ pariyāpuṇanti tesaṃ kukkuccaṃ hoti, vihesā hoti, vilekhā hoti, ye imaṃ na pariyāpuṇanti tesaṃ kukkuccaṃ na hoti vihesā na hoti vilekhā na hoti.
“For those who learn this, there is remorse, there is annoyance, there is mental vexation; for those who do not learn this, there is no remorse, no annoyance, no mental vexation.

anuddiṭṭhaṃ idaṃ varaṃ, anuggahitaṃ idaṃ varaṃ, apariyāpuṭaṃ idaṃ varaṃ, adhāritaṃ idaṃ varaṃ, vinayo vā antaradhāyatu, ime vā bhikkhū apakataññuno hontū’’ti upasampannassa vinayaṃ vivaṇṇeti, āpatti pācittiyassa.
It would be better if this were not recited, better if it were not preserved, better if it were not learned, better if it were not memorized, or let the Vinaya disappear, or let these bhikkhus become unskilled.” If he disparages the Vinaya to a fully ordained bhikkhu, he incurs a pācittiya.

441. upasampanne upasampannasaññī vinayaṃ vivaṇṇeti, āpatti pācittiyassa.
If, regarding one who is fully ordained, he perceives him as fully ordained and disparages the Vinaya, he incurs a pācittiya.

upasampanne vematiko vinayaṃ vivaṇṇeti, āpatti pācittiyassa.
If, regarding one who is fully ordained, he is in doubt and disparages the Vinaya, he incurs a pācittiya.

upasampanne anupasampannasaññī vinayaṃ vivaṇṇeti, āpatti pācittiyassa.
If, regarding one who is fully ordained, he perceives him as not fully ordained and disparages the Vinaya, he incurs a pācittiya.

aññaṃ dhammaṃ vivaṇṇeti, āpatti dukkaṭassa.
If he disparages another Dhamma, he incurs a dukkaṭa.

anupasampannassa vinayaṃ vā aññaṃ vā dhammaṃ vivaṇṇeti, āpatti dukkaṭassa.
If he disparages the Vinaya or another Dhamma to one who is not fully ordained, he incurs a dukkaṭa.

anupasampanne upasampannasaññī, āpatti dukkaṭassa.
If, regarding one who is not fully ordained, he perceives him as fully ordained, he incurs a dukkaṭa.

anupasampanne vematiko, āpatti dukkaṭassa.
If, regarding one who is not fully ordained, he is in doubt, he incurs a dukkaṭa.

anupasampanne anupasampannasaññī, āpatti dukkaṭassa.
If, regarding one who is not fully ordained, he perceives him as not fully ordained, he incurs a dukkaṭa.

vinayavinicchayaṭīkā ¶ p.553

1721. tikapācittiyaṃ vuttanti ‘‘upasampanne upasampannasaññī vinayaṃ vivaṇṇeti, āpatti pācittiyassa.
1721. “Tikapācittiyaṃ vuttaṃ” means three pācittiya offenses are stated: “If an ordained person, perceiving an ordained person, disparages the Vinaya, there is an offense of pācittiya.
upasampanne vematiko…pe… anupasampannasaññī…pe… pācittiyassā’’ti (pāci. 441) tīṇi pācittiyāni vuttāni.
If an ordained person, being in doubt… and if an ordained person, perceiving an unordained person… there is an offense of pācittiya” (Pāci. 441).
taṃ vinayaṃ sace pana anupasampannassa santike vivaṇṇeti, tikadukkaṭanti yojanā.
The interpretation is that if one disparages “that” Vinaya in the presence of an unordained person, there is a tikadukkaṭa offense.
1722-4. ubhinnampīti upasampannānaṃ, anupasampannānaṃ ubhinnampi, ‘‘santike’’ti seso.
1722-4. “Ubhinnampi” means “of both” ordained and unordained persons, with “in the presence of” understood.
aññadhammavivaṇṇaneti vinayato aññesaṃ suttābhidhammānaṃ vivaṇṇane.
“Aññadhammavivaṇṇane” means disparaging other teachings, such as the Sutta and Abhidhamma, apart from the Vinaya.

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The majority of them will be Athiests within 10 years. :folded_hands:

R

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And imagine doing that and not even realising it is wrong.

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Most monks disrobe, so your statement is correct.
However, there are now some very senior monks who have survived and continue to spread this. It has grown, and not declined. I think there is an attraction to this due to the human nature of shock value, disagreement and negativity. This is what the “algorithm” of what tends to go viral seeks. It is beyond social media. It applies to any media that has these negative qualities that will become popular. The algorithm just applies this over and over again. That is why it is called an algorithm.

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Indeed, Bhante.

R

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So it doesn’t include house rules? Like monastery rules?