Is Anapanasati not for me?

I think Anapanasati might not be for me because I can’t really feel the breath naturally in my day to day life. I have to control it to feel it. I used to think it was for me because I thought myself to be of deluded or speculative temperament, and if I remember correctly, it’s stated in the Visuddimagga that anapanasati is for deluded and speculative temperaments. I can easily believe anything I read in the Buddhists texts such as Mount Meru, jataka tales, and stuff like that. I also like to speculate about it. So, I think I’m of deluded or speculative temperament.

Does anyone also struggle with feeling the breath when meditating? How do I feel the breath naturally without controlling it.

I think Buddhanusati or Kasinas fit me better. Four elements meditation seem kind of complicated so I don’t want to try it without a teacher. It’s also hard for me to feel the four elements throughout my body without forcing it.

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See this topic. Anapanasati is not for everyone:

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That is great… a real CT’er. Also, I posted something about flat earth and 4 dimensions. It is always good to be open to things people do not logically believe by mere science. While, the world we are is what we experience. It is also like "I think therefore “I Am” which “I Am” is not part of Buddhist thought.

Back to the topic. Yes, the Vsm says that anapana is very difficult and subtle. In Ven Pa-Auk Sayadaw’s older books, he used to teach 4 elements first, then using the light to see the body, they kasinas are then practice. After that, anapana is given. He says in his book that after kasinas, anapana is easier once the kasinas are learned, but I cannot find it anymore. Anapana can be confusing because many English speakers focus too much on the touching point and real dhammas instead of pannyatti.

All that said, Pa-Auk turned into a retreat center with monks only having a few weeks to spare during learning breaks. Because 4 elements takes about 1 month to learn the basics, people were learning without a complete course. The course was then changed to anapana as the main introduction method.

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Did you see this thead on asubha and the other protective meditations.

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Hello Venerable Sir,

Four element meditation sounds great. I’ve read that if someone gets to the second vipassana stage, he is secured or something like that, so if I can succeed in four elements meditation, that’s be great.

I meditated on Anapana after making this post and it wasn’t as hard as I thought. I guess I was just frustrated that I couldn’t feel the breath outside of my meditation sessions. It’s hard to feel the breath when I’m using my phone or laptop. I’m not sure how much we are supposed to be aware of the breath in our day to day life. I also feel sleepy when I meditate which is annoying because I haven’t overcome this problem in a long time.

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Yes, I’ve seen it, but i haven’t read all of it yet. I just mainly looked at the title and read a few sentences. I’ll give it a read.

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I could perhaps talk about my experiences.

I’ve been meditating for over 25 years now. I started considerably young, because I had terrible migraines and the only thing that could help me was deep meditation.

So I’ve had some funky experiences along the years with various meditation techniques, bulk of which were completely outside of anything buddhist, mostly standard psychotherapeutic / self hypnotic tools. A lot of breath exercises.

Now, breath exercises are not specifically breath meditation. I’m used to controlling the breath, but I’d never practiced just attending to breath without assuming any control. When I tried breath meditation, my mind would get distracted, I couldn’t count the breaths, etc, and I moved on to other things.

I was also conceited, more interested in deep states, also with other topics like death contemplation, buddha / deva contemplation, you know, more fancy stuff.

But then I realised, well wait a minute. It was good enough for Buddha.

So while not completely abandoning my breath control techniques, but just being mindful of them, I started to ease into breath meditation.

Now if it’s said that breath is a hard technique to master, and perhaps my years of meditation has helped me a bit (or a lot). Perhaps. But still, my mental block had nothing to do with me experience or likewise. In fact, my “experience” hindered me because I just taught breath was something for beginners, whatever that means.

The moment “breath meditation” turned into “breath contemplation” was my breakthrough for me. And I think there’s something to this approach.

Buddhists, Jains, Hindus, Jews, Seculars, everyone pays attention to breath. Breath seems like a very mundane thing, and yet, it’s the most crucial thing. I can go without food for a week/month. I can go without water for 2-3 days. I can’t go without breath for more than 10 minutes.

So once I delved deeper into this topic, rather than just focusing on this breath, but on breath in general, then slowly but surely it became a lot easier to keep my attention focused on this breath.

So I could suggest a similar approach. Try to connect with sages of past as them “What is it about breath?”. Try to notice how your body reacts to each breath. Just think about breath if you can’t focus on your breath yet. Take the idea and run with it.

Weird things work with breath counterintuitively. For example, if you want to take a deep breath, first exhaling all the air in your lungs allows your body to take a deep breath automatically. Taking two medium-long inhales without exhaling relaxes the brain considerably. There’s some interesting techniques.

I’m not sure if commentaries go deep in various breath techniques (suttas just talk about awareness of breath as it unfolds as far as I know). But there’s a wide literature of various things you can try, from windblown musicians’ exercises to more secular therapy approached.

All in all, even your inability to focus on breath can be a topic of recollection and investigation. And from Buddhas of all ages to anyone remotely spiritual, breath’s played a crucial part. To connect with those dimensions is an amazing treasury for any serious practitioner, I would think.

Good luck!

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Yes. We can’t easily understand the teachings about meru but I don’t discount them.
Science too has only the tiniest understanding of this and human life now is so short compared to humans at other times, it is hard to know the actual real nature of the universe.
Understanding sound or hearing, sight or seeing that are arising all the time is hard enough actually.

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I think this is where one needs to be very very careful and humble. I will just point a few things out for you to research further. Actually the word associated with ānāpānassatisamādhi is ‘garukaṃ’. Why? Is explained below( this is also not in terms of an ādikammika)

idaṃ pana ānāpānassatikammaṭṭhānaṃ garukaṃ garukabhāvanaṃ buddhapaccekabuddhabuddhaputtānaṃ mahāpurisānaṃyeva manasikārabhūmibhūtaṃ, na ceva ittaraṃ, na ca ittarasattasamāsevitaṃ. yathā yathā manasi karīyati, tathā tathā santañceva hoti sukhumañca. tasmā ettha balavatī sati ca paññā ca icchitabbā.

What is meant by ānāpānassatisamādhi in this tradition

ānāpānapariggāhikāya satiyā saddhiṃ sampayutto samādhi

Samadhi means saupacāra appanāsamādhi

idañhi dvīhākārehi cittaṃ samāhitaṃ nāma hohi – upacārabhūmiyaṃ vā nīvaraṇappahānena, paṭilābhabhūmiyaṃ vā aṅgapātubhāvena. tattha "upacārabhūmī"ti upacārasamādhi, "paṭilābhabhūmī"ti appanāsamādhi.

Anything less is still called paṭipadā

tattha paṭhamasamannāhārato paṭṭhāya yāva tassa tassa jhānassa upacāraṃ uppajjati, tāva pavattā samādhibhāvanā paṭipadāti vuccati. upacārato pana paṭṭhāya yāva appanā, tāva pavattā paññā abhiññāti vuccati.

The most most difficult thing for an ādikammika, is understanding, what is the object(ārammaṇa) of this meditation( āna/apāna = anto pavisanavāto / bahi nikkhamanavāto)

atha kho ārammaṇasantatāyapi santo vūpasanto nibbuto, paṭivedhasaṅkhātaaṅgasantatāyapi. ārammaṇapaṇītatāyapi paṇīto atittikaro, aṅgapaṇītatāyapīti. tena vuttaṃ "santo ceva paṇīto cā"ti. asecanako ca sukho ca vihāroti ettha pana nāssa secananti asecanako, anāsittako abbokiṇṇo pāṭiyekko āveṇiko. natthi ettha parikammena vā upacārena vā santatā. ādisamannāhārato pabhuti attano sabhāveneva santo ca paṇīto cāti attho

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That’s interesting. I feel like Buddhanusati or Kasina is the way to go for beginners.

Thank you so much for this advice. I tried this and it works. When I think about breath in general, I start to feel it a bit. Even though I can’t be aware of the whole process of breath entering the nostrils and exiting the nostrils, I can still feel breath and be aware of it as “breath”, so I can be mindful of it.

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Focus on the general characteristic of the breath… the paññatti (concept) of the breath .

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Thank you Venerable Sir and Dogen for these advice.
It helped me with anapanasati.

Also, when I stopped feeling the breath, I just remind myself that the breath will be felt between the nostrils and the upper lip, and then I can feel the breath again. I now think anapanasati is for me because it’s simple and I’m someone who thinks a lot so it helps to calm down the mind.

I don’t struggle as much as sleepiness, although I still feel sleepy from time to time. After my meditation session, which is about 30 minutes, my legs feel numb and heavy but it goes away in 1-2 mins.

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