Honestly, I feel kind of sad that it’s hard to practice a life of renunciation nowadays. Now if anyone wants to be a monk, they would have to do paperwork and fill out forms to apply to monasteries. In the past, anyone could just go forth and ask for ordination. Now it’s more complicated because there has to be space in the monastery to accept new meditators. In the past, you could just live under a tree or in the open air or in a small leaf hut and wander for alms in any village without needing lay followers. Hermits like mentioned in the Jatakas could just live off of fruits and vegetables in the forest. Nowadays, if monks have to travel, they have to do so alongside householders like on a plane. I guess now it’s hard to truly ‘leave’ the world. It’s also hard to find seclusion if there are lot of lay visitors coming to the monastery. I wish I was born in the time of the Buddha 2500 years ago. Everything was simple back then. I hope things will go smoothly when I ordain in the future but I do worry quite a bit.
Something I’d like to add to this, is a full austere lifestyle might be difficult to have nowadays but we can still get close to it. For example, if a full austere lifestyle is a 10, then we can probably live a lifestyle that’s like 7 or 8 if we live in a forest with wise monks with little to no distractions. So it’s still possible to live a lifestyle identical to 2500 years ago.
You need a visa to ordain if you plan to go to another country (recommended). These days they want to screen you for medical and psychological problems before allowing you to come and ordain. I think that Pa-Auk POL is not full like it used to be due to the government change and previous COVID.
While you would need to be assigned a kuṭi to stay there, you are always welcome to have a mosquito net under a tree. You can do that right now wherever you are, but you don’t, do you?
During the vassa, the Buddha requires that you have an enclosed kuṭi with a door.
During the Rains-residence, one is not allowed to live in the hollow of a tree, in the fork of a tree, in the open air, in a non-lodging (according to the Commentary, this means a place covered with any of the five kinds of allowable facing/roofing but lacking a door that can be opened and closed), in a charnel house, under a canopy, or in a large storage vessel. However, there is no rule against living temporarily in any of these places during the rest of the year. (BMC2 Pages 65,66)
Not yet, Venerable Sir, but I do plan to try meditating under a tree sometime in the future.
Which country is best for ordination? Is Myanmar still a great country for ordination? I would like to go to Pa-Auk POL sometimes soon (in 2-3 years). If I’m lucky, I might be able to convince my parents to let me ordain this year. Could you be my preceptor, Venerable?
If you ordain in pa-auk POL, you should have Venerable Sayawdaw Kumararabhivamsa as your preceptor.
It is always greener over the fence. Now is the best time to be a Buddhist monk. You have access to move information than in the past. You have too much choice. I preferred the time when I did it from 1980s to end of 1990’s, but it was just as tough back then. More malaria more disease couldn’t travel less ability to communicate. Waiting 6 weeks for a letter. 6 months for a visa. Things change. Just do it and find out and don’t think too much before hand. Everything is still impermanent, suffering and not self. Kamma still works the same. It was never easy or idealic. You need 3 things to start with. Patience, patience, and patience. Start doing good kamma and don’t stop. Where to ordain is a hard question but you should visit the places you are thinking about as a layperson and try that first. No hurry. Depending on your past kamma hopefully you will find the right place. But that might be anywhere. Keep 5 precepts and meditate and start from there.
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@HappinessSeeker, I think you will make a great monk. ![]()
You simply need to have a lot of khantī (patience) until that time comes (and when you do become a bhikkhu, you will need it in spades!).
In the meantime, just keep preparing and reading books like The Buddhist Monastic Code. By the way, do you enjoy reading books like that one (be honest)?
I respect you for what you are doing, and I hope you will have great success. Hopefully, you will become enlightened quickly. After that, please come back and teach, and maybe even become the abbot of a monastery (I am talking about decades from now, of course).
It really is a shame that we do not have more institutions that really promote the Tipitika and its Commentaries. It’s not easy for young monks to find a good place to ordain that does. Not only are the options very limited, but they are often very far away. Meanwhile, the number of institutions that are available but promote a contrary view is not only greater, but it is also growing. This can be tempting for would-be monks. It would be better if it were easier for young people to have more options of suitable places to ordain. If the right view is instilled, a lot of monks will pick it up.
Maybe you can also make changes, in time, like the ones you write about above. We need more good monks. But that is also just the “inside view”; it’s crucial to understand both the “inside view” and the “outside view”, if we are going to continue to grow. This dichotomy is nicely explained by Philip Tetlock, one of the world’s proven leading experts on accurately predicting outcomes, here:
"The Renzettis live in a small house at 84 Chestnut Avenue. Frank Renzetti is forty-four and works as a bookkeeper for a moving company. Mary Renzetti is thirty-five and works part-time at a day care. They have one child, Tommy, who is five. Frank’s widowed mother, Camila, also lives with the family. My question: How likely is it that the Renzettis have a pet?
To answer that, most people would zero in on the family’s details. “Renzetti is an Italian name,” someone might think. “So are ‘Frank’ and ‘Camila.’ That may mean Frank grew up with lots of brothers and sisters, but he’s only got one child. He probably wants to have a big family but he can’t afford it. So it would make sense that he compensated a little by getting a pet.” Someone else might think, “People get pets for kids and the Renzettis only have one child, and Tommy isn’t old enough to take care of a pet. So it seems unlikely.” This sort of storytelling can be very compelling, particularly when the available details are much richer than what I’ve provided here.
But superforecasters wouldn’t bother with any of that, at least not at first. The first thing they would do is find out what percentage of American households own a pet.
Statisticians call that the base rate—how common something is within a broader class. Daniel Kahneman has a much more evocative visual term for it. He calls it the “outside view”—in contrast to the “inside view,” which is the specifics of the particular case. A few minutes with Google tells me about 62% of American households own pets. That’s the outside view here. Starting with the outside view means I will start by estimating that there is a 62% chance the Renzettis have a pet. Then I will turn to the inside view—all those details about the Renzettis—and use them to adjust that initial 62% up or down.
It’s natural to be drawn to the inside view. It’s usually concrete and filled with engaging detail we can use to craft a story about what’s going on. The outside view is typically abstract, bare, and doesn’t lend itself so readily to storytelling. So even smart, accomplished people routinely fail to consider the outside view…"
Tetlock, Philip E.; Gardner, Dan. Superforecasting: The Art and Science of Prediction (p. 118). Crown. Kindle Edition.
P.S. He has a couple of chapters on this.
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P.S. If you look at the growing number of Thai Forest monasteries in America, for example, many only have a handful of monks, but they have a huge institutional footprint, and they are only expanding and acquiring more land…
R
Part of the “inside view” of this is that those monasteries would have to have very good abbots (well-disciplined and inspirational ones with a great deal of respect for the Tipiṭaka and its Commentaries), well-vetted monks (new ones would have to live there for a year or two before ordaining and not be oppositional to the needs of the organization), etc.
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R
At least a few more outposts, c’mon! ![]()
And, H.S., if you become an abbot (years from now) you could make them as austere as you wish…
R
Thank you for the kind words.
The book is interesting. It does feel overwhelming if I read a lot in one sitting so I’m taking my time in reading it. Learning the rules makes me happy but it also sometimes makes me a bit anxious, but I think I can handle it if I continue learning and try to have a wholesome mind all the time.
I think there could be more institutions that promote the Tipitaka and its commentaries in the future, especially now that we have AI. While I wouldn’t say AI is perfect, it is good enough to the point where you could get a general idea of the Pali commentaries. And you could always double check the translations with a Pali expert or another AI tool. I do want to learn Pali and translate all the commentaries to English one day.
My main goal is to attain Arahantship. Anything else would be a bonus. That being said, it would be nice to be an abbot in a peaceful place with good temperature but I hope I don’t get famous because then there would be a lot of visitors and it would hard to find time for meditation. I think a peaceful forest area in the US could be a great place to become an abbot. It’s not as hot as the Asian countries and there isn’t any civil war going on.
I’m going to start meditating seriously even as a lay person because I think every second counts. And maybe it might be possible to attain some levels of enlightenment even as a lay person if all the conditions are there.
The Mahajanaka jataka is very inspiring because the Bodhisatta was trying to swim across an entire ocean even though it seemed very hard and impossible. Trying to attain Nibbana is like that. One has to keep on striving and never abandon hope.
That’s excellent. Then, when you become a bhikkhu, I will send you a book. ![]()
Many things are changing.
The most important thing is to simply focus on your own practice and development for the foreseeable future. But things are always changing. When you are older (decades from now), it could be something that you revisit.
Yes, there are many things you can do while you are a layperson. For example, meditate, study the Abhidhamma, study Pāḷi language, make lots of merits, read books, etc.
You’re going to do great!
R
I have been reading through the Saṃyutta Nikāya again, and right after I posted this to @HappinessSeeker, the next Sutta I opened up was this one:
[A deva:]
A giver of what is a giver of strength?
A giver of what, a giver of beauty?
A giver of what, a giver of ease?
A giver of what, a giver of vision?
And who is a giver of everything?
Being asked, please explain this to me.\
[The Buddha:]
A giver of food is a giver of strength.
A giver of clothes, a giver of beauty.
A giver of a vehicle, a giver of ease.
A giver of a lamp, a giver of vision.
And the one who gives a residence,
is the one who is a giver of everything.
But the one who teaches the Dhamma
is a giver of the Deathless.
R
I feel like modern-day renunciation is easy mode compared to the past. Nowadays, going for alms round might not be practiced that much anymore because monasteries offer food. Even at the monastery, it might be a buffet style where you can choose the food you like. Personally, I think going for alms round is better because you can’t choose your own food. You would just eat food that is offered unless it is disallowed food in which case you shouldn’t accept it. Even if food is offered at the monastery, I would prefer it being like an alms round style where you have to walk on a certain path and lay people put food into the bowl instead of a buffet style.
Even the huts nowadays are well built and designed so there is more comfort than in the past. It could lead to the feeling of ownership and one might get too comfortable.
Also, in the past, those who have gone forth were world renouncers so they didn’t belong to any country anymore. Instead they belong to the forest and Dhamma but now if a monk plans to travel, he would have to carry a passport or some kind of ID that binds him to a certain country.
Also, people nowadays see any form of asceticism as extreme. Especially non-Buddhists think the household life where you enjoy sensual pleasures and do occasional good deeds is the ‘normal’ life. They see the going forth as something extreme. It’s sad to see that the spirit of renunciation is slowly fading away.
A monk from 2500 years ago would probably feel samvega(a sense of urgency) if they saw the conditions of the modern world.
This sutta is interesting. I’ve included the commentary as well.
Catutthānāgatabhayasutta
The Fourth Discourse on Future Dangers
“Bhikkhus, there are these five future dangers which at present have not arisen but will arise in the future.
You should recognize them; having recognized them, you should strive to abandon them.What five?
- The danger concerning robes
In the future, bhikkhus will desire fine robes.
Being desirous of fine robes, they will abandon wearing rag-robes.
They will abandon remote forest dwellings and secluded resting places.They will move into villages, towns, and capital cities and live there.
For the sake of robes they will engage in many kinds of improper livelihood and unworthy seeking.
Bhikkhus, this is the first future danger that has not arisen now but will arise in the future.
You should recognize it, and having recognized it, strive for its abandonment.
- The danger concerning alms food
Again, bhikkhus, in the future monks will desire delicious alms food.
Being desirous of good food, they will abandon the practice of going on alms-round.
They will abandon forest dwellings and secluded resting places.They will move into villages, towns, and capital cities, seeking the finest tastes with the tip of the tongue.
For the sake of food they will engage in many kinds of improper seeking and unsuitable livelihood.
Bhikkhus, this is the second future danger that has not arisen now but will arise in the future.
You should recognize it and strive to abandon it.
- The danger concerning lodging
Again, bhikkhus, in the future monks will desire comfortable lodgings.
Being desirous of comfortable lodgings, they will abandon living at the root of a tree.
They will abandon forest dwellings and secluded resting places.They will move into villages, towns, and capital cities and live there.
For the sake of lodging they will engage in many kinds of improper seeking and unsuitable livelihood.
Bhikkhus, this is the third future danger that has not arisen now but will arise in the future.
You should recognize it and strive to abandon it.
- The danger concerning association
Again, bhikkhus, in the future monks will live closely associated with nuns, female trainees, and novice monks.
When such close association exists, this can be expected:
They will become dissatisfied with the holy life,
or they will commit some defiled offense,
or they will abandon the training and return to the lower life.Bhikkhus, this is the fourth future danger that has not arisen now but will arise in the future.
You should recognize it and strive to abandon it.
- The danger concerning attendants
Again, bhikkhus, in the future monks will live closely associated with monastery attendants and novices.
When such association exists, this can be expected:
They will become devoted to storing and using possessions in many ways.
They will even create coarse signs, such as digging the earth or cutting vegetation.Bhikkhus, this is the fifth future danger that has not arisen now but will arise in the future.
You should recognize it and strive to abandon it.
Bhikkhus, these are the five future dangers that have not arisen now but will arise in the future.
You should recognize them, and having recognized them, strive for their abandonment.”
Commentary (Suttavaṇṇanā)
“Kalyāṇakāmā”means those who desire fine or pleasant things.
“Rasaggāni”
means excellent tastes or the finest flavors.
“Saṃsaṭṭhā viharissanti”
means they will live mixed together or closely associated in five ways of association.
“Sannidhikāraparibhoga”
means using things that have been stored up or accumulated.
“Making a coarse sign”
means actions like:
digging the earth
ordering someone to dig the earth
cutting grass, sticks, branches, or leaves
ordering others to cut them.All these create coarse disturbance to the earth or vegetation.
Also, if someone collects fruits or has others gather them for livelihood, the meaning is clear.
In these four suttas the Teacher explained both the growth and decline of the teaching (the Sāsana).
“Pañcimāni, bhikkhave, anāgatabhayāni etarahi asamuppannāni āyatiṁ samuppajjissanti. Tāni vo paṭibujjhitabbāni; paṭibujjhitvā ca tesaṁ pahānāya vāyamitabbaṁ. Katamāni pañca? Bhavissanti, bhikkhave, bhikkhū anāgatamaddhānaṁ cīvare kalyāṇakāmā. Te cīvare kalyāṇakāmā samānā riñcissanti paṁsukūlikattaṁ, riñcissanti araññavanapatthāni pantāni senāsanāni; gāmanigamarājadhānīsu osaritvā vāsaṁ kappessanti, cīvarahetu ca anekavihitaṁ anesanaṁ appatirūpaṁ āpajjissanti. Idaṁ, bhikkhave, paṭhamaṁ anāgatabhayaṁ etarahi asamuppannaṁ āyatiṁ samuppajjissati. Taṁ vo paṭibujjhitabbaṁ; paṭibujjhitvā ca tassa pahānāya vāyamitabbaṁ. Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, bhavissanti bhikkhū anāgatamaddhānaṁ piṇḍapāte kalyāṇakāmā. Te piṇḍapāte kalyāṇakāmā samānā riñcissanti piṇḍapātikattaṁ, riñcissanti araññavanapatthāni pantāni senāsanāni; gāmanigamarājadhānīsu osaritvā vāsaṁ kappessanti jivhaggena rasaggāni pariyesamānā, piṇḍapātahetu ca anekavihitaṁ anesanaṁ appatirūpaṁ āpajjissanti. Idaṁ, bhikkhave, dutiyaṁ anāgatabhayaṁ etarahi asamuppannaṁ āyatiṁ samuppajjissati. Taṁ vo paṭibujjhitabbaṁ; paṭibujjhitvā ca tassa pahānāya vāyamitabbaṁ. Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, bhavissanti bhikkhū anāgatamaddhānaṁ senāsane kalyāṇakāmā. Te senāsane kalyāṇakāmā samānā riñcissanti rukkhamūlikattaṁ, riñcissanti araññavanapatthāni pantāni senāsanāni; Variant: rukkhamūlikattaṁ → āraññakattaṁ (sya-all, km) gāmanigamarājadhānīsu osaritvā vāsaṁ kappessanti, senāsanahetu ca anekavihitaṁ anesanaṁ appatirūpaṁ āpajjissanti. Idaṁ, bhikkhave, tatiyaṁ anāgatabhayaṁ etarahi asamuppannaṁ āyatiṁ samuppajjissati. Taṁ vo paṭibujjhitabbaṁ; paṭibujjhitvā ca tassa pahānāya vāyamitabbaṁ. Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, bhavissanti bhikkhū anāgatamaddhānaṁ bhikkhunīsikkhamānāsamaṇuddesehi saṁsaṭṭhā viharissanti. Bhikkhunīsikkhamānāsamaṇuddesehi saṁsagge kho pana, bhikkhave, sati etaṁ pāṭikaṅkhaṁ: ‘anabhiratā vā brahmacariyaṁ carissanti, aññataraṁ vā saṅkiliṭṭhaṁ āpattiṁ āpajjissanti, sikkhaṁ vā paccakkhāya hīnāyāvattissanti’. Idaṁ, bhikkhave, catutthaṁ anāgatabhayaṁ etarahi asamuppannaṁ āyatiṁ samuppajjissati. Taṁ vo paṭibujjhitabbaṁ; paṭibujjhitvā ca tassa pahānāya vāyamitabbaṁ. Puna caparaṁ, bhikkhave, bhavissanti bhikkhū anāgatamaddhānaṁ ārāmikasamaṇuddesehi saṁsaṭṭhā viharissanti. Ārāmikasamaṇuddesehi saṁsagge kho pana, bhikkhave, sati etaṁ pāṭikaṅkhaṁ: ‘anekavihitaṁ sannidhikāraparibhogaṁ anuyuttā viharissanti, oḷārikampi nimittaṁ karissanti, pathaviyāpi haritaggepi’. Idaṁ, bhikkhave, pañcamaṁ anāgatabhayaṁ etarahi asamuppannaṁ āyatiṁ samuppajjissati. Taṁ vo paṭibujjhitabbaṁ; paṭibujjhitvā ca tassa pahānāya vāyamitabbaṁ. Imāni kho, bhikkhave, pañca anāgatabhayāni etarahi asamuppannāni āyatiṁ samuppajjissanti. Tāni vo paṭibujjhitabbāni; paṭibujjhitvā ca tesaṁ pahānāya vāyamitabban”ti.
Dasamaṁ. Yodhājīvavaggo tatiyo. 10. Catutthaanāgatabhayasuttavaṇṇanā 80. Dasame kalyāṇakāmāti sundarakāmā. Rasaggānīti uttamarasāni. Saṃsaṭṭhā viharissantīti pañcavidhena saṃsaggena saṃsaṭṭhā viharissanti. Sannidhikāraparibhoganti sannidhikatassa paribhogaṃ. Oḷārikampi nimittanti ettha pathaviṃ khaṇantopi khaṇāhīti āṇāpentopi pathaviyaṃ oḷārikaṃ nimittaṃ karoti nāma. Tiṇakaṭṭhasākhāpalāsaṃ chindantopi chindāti āṇāpentopi haritagge oḷārikaṃ nimittaṃ karoti nāma. Ājīvatthāya paṇṇanivāpaādīni gāhāpento phalāni ocinante vā ocināpentena vattabbameva natthi. Imesu catūsu suttesu satthārā sāsane vuddhiparihāni kathitāti.
I might have to temporarily forget about going forth for now. It’s just too painful to wait and it’s so hard for me to focus on school now. So I’m going to take a break from desiring ordination and bury the thought inside me like a hidden treasure until the time is right for me to ordain. After some years, I will remember to ordain again and at that time I will be able to do so. My desire for ordination will never truly go away because birth, aging, and death exist in this world. By reading the suttas and jatakas and other texts and observing events in the world, I already know the drawbacks of sensual pleasures, of the household life, and of samsara. They are like a mountain of suffering. Recently, I went on a hiking trip with some people. I had to go back down half way because I was afraid of height and I didn’t want to die since I know this life is very precious and I couldn’t afford to lose it. I realized trying to be successful and reaching the peak of worldly success for someone afraid of falling into lower realms is like reaching the top of a mountain for someone afraid of falling off the mountain. You could fall back down. The fear of falling is constantly present and there’s little happiness even at the top of the mountain. In the same way, samsara is like a mountain of suffering. As long as you are on the mountain of samsara, you could fall back down into lower realms. When I was going down the mountain, I only rested briefly to rest my body but my mind couldn’t rest until I got to the ground. In the same way, someone who wants to escape the mountain of samsara should practice diligently and can’t truly rest until they attain Nibbana. Just like how a person who got to the ground from the mountain no longer have any fear of falling because they are incapable of falling and can go freely in the four directions, a person who attains Arahantship will not have any fear and will be able to go freely to Nibbana.
The peak of the mountain represents the peak of worldly success. For someone afraid of heights, the higher you go up a mountain, the harder it will be to go back down. In the same way, for someone who is afraid of falling into lower realms, the more successful you become in your life (like getting a very good job, a nice house, and starting a family), the harder it will be to renounce all of that and ordain. So the hiking trip was like a reminder saying “Renounce the household life and go forth before you reach the peak of worldly success because it will be very hard to do so then”.
Lately, it’s been getting more and more hard to wait for ordination so I might stop thinking about it temporarily. This is another fault of samsara. Even if someone is reborn in the human realm, which is the best place to practice the Dhamma, he may not be able to go forth immediately because of circumstances.
I’ve been wanting to practice meditation full time since I was 13 but I wasn’t able to do that and so I had to distract myself by giving myself worldly goals, so it seemed as though I kept changing my mind between living the household life and going forth, but it was only because I needed to distract myself, otherwise the wait would have been so painful.
If I could give a message to all the renunciants in the world, I would tell them that their life of renunciation is so precious and that they should make the most out of it because it’s not easy to get that kind of life. A lot of us are not able to ordain immediately like we want to because we don’t have permission for immediate ordination even though our parents may be okay with us ordaining sometime in the future. If I could have three wishes in the world, it would be to be able to go forth, practice the Dhamma, and attain Nibbana. I would treasure a life of renunciation so much. I think if all renunciants (monks and nuns) treasure it as well, they would observe all the rules with joy and live the ascetic life without boredom and practice diligently until they reach the ultimate goal no matter what obstacles come their way.
I think renunciation is something one must constantly practice whether one is an householder or an renunciant. Even a monk who has already renounce the household life may have a monastery that he manages which might make him busy. He can choose to renounce even that and practice meditation full time because tomorrow is never certain and things like monasteries and lay followers don’t truly belong to oneself. Death could happen anytime.
In this dispensation, it’s not enough to just be reborn as a human, deva, or brahma. Everyone should strive to attain Nibbana in this very life because it’s the only true safety.
Worth talking about what renunciation is in different aspects.
Consider at the momentary level - the level of what is actually real.
The Commentary to Cariya Pitaka
Wisdom (paññå) has the characteristic of penetrating the real specific
nature (of dhammas), or the characteristic of sure penetration, like the
penetration of an arrow shot by a skilful archer; its function is to illuminate
the objective field, like a lamp; its manifestation is non-confusion, like a
guide in a forest; concentration or the four (noble) truths, is its proximate
cause.
No matter how many
other excellent qualities someone may have, his defilements cannot be
eradicated if paññå does not develop and becomes keener, if paññå
does not clearly see the true nature of the realities that are naturally
appearing. Thus, we should see the incomparable value of paññå and
we should apply ourselves to its development so that it can become fully
accomplished. If we develop satipaììhåna time and again, paññå will be
gradually accumulated so that it becomes keener, and reaches the
degree of a perfection which realizes the four noble Truths.
[..]
“The Bodhisatta realized the impermanence of the dewdrops and made this
predominant in accumulating a sense of urgency and disenchantment; it
arose once and then became a condition leading to its arising very often.”
When right understanding with a sense of urgency arises we should not
let it pass by without paying attention to it. We should reflect on the
conditions for this sense of urgency so that it can arise more often. The
thought of death and impermanence can be a condition for further
developing the perfections.
Also we should be keen to recognize imitation versions of this sense of urgency. If aversion arises when we contemplate death or impermanence this is not wisdom, it is dosa. There can be refined calm when contemplating death and the momentary nature of each element that are arising and ceasing now. We are fearless in those moments.
Yeah, I think real sense of urgency is when we feel the need to practice meditation and do good deeds immediately. It’s not like a panic feeling someone would have if a thief broke into their house. It’s more like knowing that because life is impermanent and uncertain, there is the fearful aspect to it, so there is suffering, and since we can’t change it, it is non self.
We can also feel a sense of urgency when we see or hear someone doing a bad deed on the news for example. We will feel the need to practice the Dhamma and make merit so that we can be free from samsara and not make those mistakes if we are born again in the next life.
Yes, I agree. It’s great to notice impermanence in the world. Like for example, when we see leaves falling off from a tree or a flower withering. I think it can be a great condition for the future. I also agree that Panna (wisdom) is very important.
I remember reading somewhere that attaining Jhana is also a form of renunciation. Abstaining from unwholesome deeds is also a form of renunciation because it means you are renouncing unwholesome deeds. The four levels of enlightenment are the ultimate renunciation because you would be renouncing defilements forever.
In the meantime, just study, make merit, keep the precepts, etc. Everything will be fine. ![]()
R