I heard that it has accounts where the Buddha and a lot of arahants came and visited him. This seems absurd.
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It’s completely absurd. You should read it sometime. It is, however, a perfect example of what happens when the Abhidhamma and Commentaries are not taken seriously, as they were in the Thai Forest tradition that he came from. The Thai Forest tradition started off as an extremely noble undertaking, with monks trying to actually attain nibbāna, when many had given up on this goal or thought it no longer possible. Yet we can see that within about 4 generations it became overtaken by wrong views, complete with eternalist saints and mythological stories like the one you referenced. It really didn’t take long for that to happen. Ajahn Sao started teaching Mun sometime around the 1890’s, if I am not mistaken. The biography was first published in 1971, in Thai. So within about eighty years (or 4 generations) we see this fully hypostatized.
Now, whether Mahā Boowa’s accounts of Ajahn Mun’s life and experiences are actually reflective of what Mun claimed himself, or are mostly developed by Mahā Boowa, I can’t say for certain, but we can see what happened nonetheless. Mahā Boowa also implied that he was an arahant himself—one who proclaimed public political views and who used money, and so on, which is also ridiculous, of course.
It’s not very different from what happened after the Buddha’s parinibbāna.
All the schools that did not honor the Abhidhamma fell into wrong views, and they either don’t exist anymore or were absorbed into schools with wrong views that developed much later. Only the Theravāda has remained until now (for a total of 2,500+ years, or 125+ generations). This is simply because it insulated itself from all those wrong views by its rigorous adherence to the Abhidhamma and Commentaries.
You might also enjoy this thread:
R
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The story does not appear to be fake. It is a real story handed down by Acharn Maha Boowa who also was considered to be an Arahanta. It is indicative of something that no one wants to think about that is even deeper. All the forest monks in Thailand of that Acharn Mun Tradition did something really amazing. I have heaps of respect for them. I visited Acharn Maha Boowa too. These are monks who have done some serious meditation and need to be respected. So many people have benefited from their teachings.
In Thailand in many monasteries the Arahanta belief leads to other things too. If you see them do something incorrectly by vinaya then they reply Acharn X did this and he was an arahanta so we do it the same way.
In any tradition of Buddhism we have the same. Any person who gets a good dose of samadhi and jhana has the ability to have visions that to us look pretty wierd. It happens in any meditation center.
Pa Auk Sayadaw himself learnt his meditation of 4 elements from such a teacher Than Lyin sayadaw. In their method once you got upacara samadhi you look inside your heart base and see it is pure and many of them thought they were Arahantas.
It was very controversial at the time. They even had a big Arahanta Puja event at Than Lyin and then the Than Lyin Sayadaw died and the whole place fell apart and then years later one of those "Arahanta’s "disrobed and lived in Mawlamyine. Pa Auk Sayadaw told me a story about that guy being on a local bus and in conversation about Than Lyin he said he was a Than Lyin arahanta once. Story illustrates that self deception is completely possible to each human.
Same thing happens everywhere to be honest. Belief first, logic second.
The same occurs at Pa Auk monastery. People have samadhi tell lots of stories and all those people with samadhi amongst themselves disagree. They each accuse the other of being self deceived. Some of those teachers are now teaching in the west.
They are all good people and have some samadhi but I suspect they don’t have the wisdom to discern what is True and what is fiction.
There are lots of other charismatics and people with wild visions in every meditation system.
Even OM Shinrikyo who did a sarin attack in Japanese subway had similar stories.
Tibetan Buddhism has similar look at all the paintings and tantric practices.
It is a big conundrum, but these people can have really good characters and for me I just keep doing what is good and meditating and hopefully I will get to work out what is really going in this samadhi game of chance.
There is only one way to work it all out and that is to meditate and experience it for yourself and leave judgement aside till you realise the truth yourself.
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Thanks Greg,
Very interesting. But the part I bolded at the end of your post doesn’t account for overestimation. Someone may have experiences that they rate very highly and strongly believe they have attamed. Look at the Brahmajala sutta where even those who attained high levels of real Jhana misconceived them in different ways.
Indeed as you note:
Your stories completely underline my point.
R