How many Buddhas can there be in the uncountable universes?

General Theravada topics
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https://suttacentral.net/mn115/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=sidebyside&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

In this sutta, I read that two Buddhas can’t arise in the same solar system at the same time. So does this mean there could be other Buddhas in other solar systems?

However, in the Mahaparinibanna sutta, it is implied that there is only one Buddha in the present at a time.

What about all the perfected ones, the fully awakened Buddhas who lived in the past? Have you comprehended their minds to know that
Kiṁ te, sāriputta, ye te ahesuṁ atītamaddhānaṁ arahanto sammāsambuddhā, sabbe te bhagavanto cetasā ceto paricca viditā
those Buddhas had such ethics, or such qualities, or such wisdom, or such meditation, or such freedom?”
‘evaṁsīlā te bhagavanto ahesuṁ itipi, evaṁdhammā evaṁpaññā evaṁvihārī evaṁvimuttā te bhagavanto ahesuṁ itipī’”ti?

“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.

“And what about all the perfected ones, the fully awakened Buddhas who will live in the future? Have you comprehended their minds to know that
“Kiṁ pana te, sāriputta, ye te bhavissanti anāgatamaddhānaṁ arahanto sammāsambuddhā, sabbe te bhagavanto cetasā ceto paricca viditā
those Buddhas will have such ethics, or such qualities, or such wisdom, or such meditation, or such freedom?”
‘evaṁsīlā te bhagavanto bhavissanti itipi, evaṁdhammā evaṁpaññā evaṁvihārī evaṁvimuttā te bhagavanto bhavissanti itipī’”ti?

“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.

“And what about me, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha at present? Have you comprehended my mind to know that
“Kiṁ pana te, sāriputta, ahaṁ etarahi arahaṁ sammāsambuddho cetasā ceto paricca vidito:
I have such ethics, or such teachings, or such wisdom, or such meditation, or such freedom?”
‘evaṁsīlo bhagavā itipi, evaṁdhammo evaṁpañño evaṁvihārī evaṁvimutto bhagavā itipī’”ti?

“No, sir.”

This also implies there is only one Buddha at a time across the uncountable universes because Buddhas of the present are not mentioned. Only Buddhas of the past and future are mentioned.

“The Buddhas of the past or the future have attendants who are no better than Ānanda is for me.
“yepi te, bhikkhave, ahesuṁ atītamaddhānaṁ arahanto sammāsambuddhā, tesampi bhagavantānaṁ etapparamāyeva upaṭṭhākā ahesuṁ, seyyathāpi mayhaṁ ānando.Yepi te, bhikkhave, bhavissanti anāgatamaddhānaṁ arahanto sammāsambuddhā, tesampi bhagavantānaṁ etapparamāyeva upaṭṭhākā bhavissanti, seyyathāpi mayhaṁ ānando.

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Just to throw in special relativity here, we should abandon the notion of absolute time since 1905, when Special relativity comes out. Absolute time means we can find and agree on a present moment at all points in space and even multiverse for all observers regardless of how the observers are moving.

Special relativity puts an end to that for when the speed of light limits how fast information can travel from one place to another, the whole spacetime structure become tied to causality structure. Different observers at different places, moving at different velocities would have a different plane of present moment. So much so that the only universal future is the future light cone, centered from the here and now and limited by how fast light can spread out into the future. Same for the past light cone for how far can light reach us.

So something happening in a galaxy 1 million light years away, say 1 year ago, we cannot know about until 999,999 years later when that event has time to travel to us to influence us. So to us, it’s in the hyperspace of possible present moment. But really, since it’s outside of possible contact, it’s just imagination until contact happens.

So present moment extended to all space is an imagination. The best we can do to define future is our future light cone and the best for past is our past light cone.

Now special relativity has no allowances for faster than light travel (which wrap drives could do, but we don’t have that tech), or multiversal travel. Therefore, there could very well be other Buddhas at other multiverses, totally causally disconnected from our universes, and not falling within our future or past light cone.

Or just far away from this universe as well.

For some multiverse models, like quantum many worlds, it’s guaranteed that there’s a Buddha in those other universe, and some of them have the laws of physics conspire to make Buddha still alive now.

Some other multiverse models, like String theory landscape of different physical constants are not guaranteeing any Buddhas elsewhere.

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Hello Venerable Sir,
Thank you for answering. That sounds interesting, although I remember some instances where devas and brahmas from other universes came to see the Buddha, so it still feels like present moment is extended to their universes as well. Also, I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, other universes are destroyed at the same time as this universe at the end of every world cycle.

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This really I dunno. If they are travelling faster than light, it breaks physics and thus there can be some operational way to define a present moment for far away places, but it’s just also very prone to time travel exploitation.

I think the commentaries would only say that 1st Jhāna brahma realm gets destroyed at fire, then 2nd for water, then 3rd for wind. With the cycle of wind only once every 64 times, and water once every 8 times.

So if you want to map the higher brahma realms got more worlds, which got destroyed, then it’s not the case that every world cycle all worlds gets destroyed. The 4th Jhāna Brahma realm doesn’t get destroyed at all.

Then we have the ambiguity to define what maps as world in the scriptures. Solar system or our cosmology of observable universe.

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Yes, Venerable Sir, that is interesting. If the 4th brahma realms and the pure abodes don’t get destroyed, does that mean they are permanent? I think they don’t get destroyed by fire, water, and wind, but they disappear when there are no beings in those places.

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These realms are changing every moment; therefore, they are impermanent.

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