How life began and evolutionary theory

yes. the main thesis of evolution is that we and all life on earth today are “accidents” taken by random events. A big hole is it doesnt actually explain the origin of life, but even if we take how things came to be now as total accidents that is a contradiction of the Dhamma itself.

The Dhamma makes it clear that things do not happen by accident. Even actual accidents, like car accidents, are the result of kamma, so even the car accident had its victims “in mind”. And the evolution of animals certainly had the animals kamma “in mind” in a particular direction, even if it wasnt a God/gods who actively did it. The idea of kamma as a cosmic force is not compatible with everything being the result of random accidents.

It is a bit more complex than that.
see this:
Sivaka sutta

But anyway I certainly agree with your sentiments about Evolution theory.

How interesting! I don’t see how those little caveats would apply to something like a car accident but interesting to see the takes presented.

That happens with English speaking too. Most people done understand the difference, hence the idiotic cries of “I ain’t no monkey!”

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In my opinion, the Aggañña Sutta describes the re-emergence of various forms of existence within the sensual realm as a new universe expands. The sutta states that when beings consume “food from the earth”, some become beautiful while others become ugly. I can imagine the beautiful beings as devas and the ugly ones as lower forms of existence. I can also envision animals spontaneously appearing on the forming Earth and reproducing, so that some beings who “become ugly” after consuming the food are eventually reborn as animals.

It is important to remember the role of mental factors in the process of forming these living beings. Consciousness conditions nāma-rūpa. If consciousness does not establish itself in an animal or human body formed from material elements, that body will not be able to develop. Thus, for the first primitive animals to appear on the forming Earth, material elements must spontaneously organize into a primitive animal organism, while at the same time, there must be a consciousness compatible with that material organization in the form of a primitive animal being. As these primitive animals reproduce, they generate new forms of animal life, some different from their ancestors, in a process of evolution. This evolution is driven by adaptability to the environment as well as sexual selection.

Regarding the emergence of human beings in the material world, although the texts mention that spontaneous generation of humans is possible, I believe that most of the first human beings actually arose from the most evolved primates—those whose bodies were compatible with the consciousness of a human being.

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Not at all, several Buddhist teachers have noted the parallel. Of course you can disagree with them, but there are teachers who have also noted the similarity (not literal). Radhika Abeysekara, Ven. Punnaji, Ven. Dhammika and I’m sure some others.

It never intended to speak of the origin. It is about what happens with life after that. There are random genetic mutations, but the rest is not accident. There are changes in the gene pool due to natural selection, but there is no reason why kamma could also not be a part of that selection.

No, because the Dhamma also refers to long periods of Dark Ages when the Dhamma is not present in the world system (between Samma-Sam-Buddhas). The dark ages could be when there is no intelligent species in the world yet. In the suttas, human refers to what our species looks like now, but it could also mean any dominant - intelligent species that arises through kamma and evolution.

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I think humans when the lifespan was 10 may have looked like apes. As the life span increased, their beauty and intelligence increased

From the Cakkavattisutta
** Among the people who live for ten years, there will be an interregnum of swords lasting seven days. During that time they will see each other as beasts. Sharp swords will appear in their hands, with which they’ll take each other’s life, crying, ‘It’s a beast! It’s a beast!’**

And so, mendicants, from not providing money to the penniless, all these things became widespread—poverty, theft, swords, killing, lying, backbiting, sexual misconduct, harsh speech and talking nonsense, desire and ill will, wrong view, illicit desire, immoral greed, and wrong custom, and lack of due respect for mother and father, ascetics and brahmins, and failure to honor the elders in the family. For the sentient beings among whom these things were widespread, their lifespan and beauty declined. Those people who lived for two hundred and fifty years had children who lived for a hundred years.

There will come a time, mendicants, when these people will have children who live for ten years. Among the people who live for ten years, girls will be marriageable at five. The following flavors will disappear: ghee, butter, oil, honey, molasses, and salt. The best kind of food will be finger millet, “Finger millet”

The ten ways of doing skillful deeds will totally disappear, and the ten ways of doing unskillful deeds will explode in popularity. The narrative above traced the gradual disappearance of these ten factors. Those people will not even have the word ‘skillful’, still less anyone who does what is skillful. And anyone who disrespects mother and father, ascetics and brahmins, and fails to honor the elders in the family will be venerated and praised, just as the opposite is venerated and praised today.

There’ll be no recognition of the status of mother, aunts, or wives and partners of tutors and respected people. The world will become dissolute, like goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and dogs and jackals.
They’ll be full of hostility towards each other, with acute ill will, malevolence, and thoughts of murder. Even a mother will feel like this for her child, and the child for its mother, father for child, child for father, brother for sister, and sister for brother. They’ll be just like a deer hunter when he sees a deer—full of hostility, ill will, malevolence, and thoughts of killing.

Among the people who live for ten years, there will be an interregnum of swords lasting seven days. During that time they will see each other as beasts. Sharp swords will appear in their hands, with which they’ll take each other’s life, crying, ‘It’s a beast! It’s a beast!’

But then some of those beings will think, ‘Let us neither kill nor be killed! Why don’t we hide in thick grass, thick jungle, thick trees, inaccessible riverlands, or rugged mountains and survive on forest roots and fruits?’ “Let us neither kill nor be killed” is an idiomatic phrase, the Golden Rule framed as a negative: “Let us not do unto others nor let others do unto us.” It is explained by the commentary as, “Let us not take even a single person’s life or let them take ours”.So that’s what they do.

When those seven days have passed, having emerged from their hiding places and embraced each other, they will come together and cry in one voice, ‘Fantastic, dear foe, you live! Fantastic, dear foe, you live!’

Then those beings will think, ‘It’s because we undertook unskillful things that we suffered such an extensive loss of our relatives. We’d better do what’s skillful. What skillful thing should we do? Why don’t we refrain from killing living creatures? Having undertaken this skillful thing we’ll live by it.’ The first precept, and the first of the ten ways of skillful action. The Buddhist ethical principles are not just a part of Buddhist teaching, they are essential for the healthy functioning of human society.So that’s what they do. Because of undertaking this skillful thing, their lifespan and beauty will grow. Those people who live for ten years will have children who live for twenty years.

Then those beings will think, ‘Because of undertaking this skillful thing, our lifespan and beauty are growing. Why don’t we do even more skillful things? What skillful thing should we do? Why don’t we refrain from stealing … sexual misconduct … lying … backbiting … harsh speech … and talking nonsense. Why don’t we give up covetousness … ill will … wrong view … three things: illicit desire, immoral greed, and wrong custom. Why don’t we pay due respect to mother and father, ascetics and brahmins, honoring the elders in our families? Having undertaken this skillful thing we’ll live by it.’ So that’s what they do.

Because of undertaking this skillful thing, their lifespan and beauty will grow. Those people who live for twenty years will have children who live for forty years. Those people who live for forty years will have children who live for eighty years, then a hundred and sixty years, three hundred and twenty years, six hundred and forty years, 2,000 years, 4,000 years, 8,000 years, 20,000 years, 40,000 years, and finally 80,000 years. Among the people who live for 80,000 years, girls will be marriageable at five hundred.
Cakkavattisutta
The pali translations are available at SuttaCentral

Yes well. Having other ppl agree with u does not make the mental gymnastics any less Olympian.

There wouldn’t be a human race if our lifespan was 10 years.

Theoretically, it could be possible. If humans mostly have early puberty (precocious puberty) and give birth around 8 or 9 and then pass away.

The youngest confirmed birth by a girl was Lina Medina, a Peruvian girl who was most likely raped and became pregnant and gave birth at age five-and-a-half.

See her story: Lina Medina - Wikipedia

You’re thinking way too narrowly and are assuming typical human lifespan/development is permanent and unchanging.

again. you’re thinking as if human lifespan is permanent and unchanging. When humans live to 80,000 years human females will hit puberty at 500 years. when humans live to 10 years old they will hit puberty at 5 years old. The age human females are getting thier first periods is already dropping on average.

Science suggests that evolution doesn’t have any particular direction and that elements like consciousness and intelligence arising due to evolution are not at all probable or inevitable.
If you are saying that it is kamma that is needed isn’t that different from the scientific theory of evolution?

Sean B. Carroll – The Serengeti Rules* (2016)
“There is no evolutionary rule that says species must become more complex over time, or that intelligence is an inevitable outcome. The idea that evolution strives for progress is a deeply misleading myth.”

Kevin Laland – Darwin’s Unfinished Symphony (2017)
"We humans like to see direction in everything, but evolution operates without a script. The emergence of intelligence, language, and culture was contingent, not inevitable."

Yes there are very long periods when there are no humans, as most beings are born in the Abhassara brahma world during the ending of a world system and before a new one, probably hard to imagine in years how long that is.

Agganna sutta

There comes a time, Vāseṭṭha, when, sooner or later, after a long period, this world contracts. At a time of contraction, beings are mostly reborn in the Ābhassara Brahma world. There they dwell, mind-made, feeding on delight, self-luminous, moving through the air, and glorious. They remain in this state for a very long time.

"But sooner or later, after a very long period, this world begins to expand again. When this happens, the beings from the Ābhassara Brahma world, having passed away from there, are mostly reborn in this world

Anguttara nikaya 4.156:
156 (6) Eon “Bhikkhus, there are these four incalculable divisions of an eon. 838 What four? (1) “The time during which an eon dissolves, which cannot easily be calculated as ‘so many years’ or ‘so many hundreds of years’ or ‘so many thousands of years’ or ‘so many hundreds of thousands of years.’

Samyutta nikaya chapter iv 15
“5 (5) The Mountain At Sāvatthı̄. Then a certain bhikkhu approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said to him: “Venerable sir, how long is an aeon?” “An aeon is long, bhikkhu. It is not easy to count it and say it is so many years, or so many hundreds of years, or so many thousands of years, or so many hundreds of thousands of years.” “Then is it possible to give a simile, venerable sir?” “It is possible, bhikkhu,” the Blessed One said. “Suppose, bhikkhu, there was a great stone mountain a yojana long, a yojana wide, and a yojana high, without holes or crevices, one solid mass of rock. At the end of every hundred years a man would stroke it once with a piece of Kāsian cloth. That great stone mountain might by this effort be worn away and eliminated but the aeon would still not have come to an end. So long is an aeon, bhikkhu. And of aeons of such length, we have wandered through so many aeons, so many hundreds of aeons, so many thousands of aeons, so many hundreds of thousands of aeons. For what reason? Because, bhikkhu, this saṃsāra is without discoverable beginning…. It is enough to be liberated from them.

The time for a bodhisatta to develop to a Buddha is so many of those aeons. The shortest is 4 asaṅkheyya kappas plus 100,000 mahākappas.

What makes you think that?! I literally said it could be possible.

You’re saying its possible under circumstances similar to how humans develop. I’m saying when human lifespan reaches 10 years old, the human development cycle/puberty age will adjust accordingly as well.

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Which has nothing to do with human lifespan being permanent and unchanging. I accept evolution so obviously I don’t think the species or lifespan or any other trait is permanent and unchanging.

If anything, a person who accepts evolution could accuse those who reject human evolution are seeing the species as permanent and unchanging, certainly not the other way around.

Evolution tends to move toward better traits, but not always. It typically goes toward traits that allow greater survival, better defenses. Those members of the species better suited for survival have greater chances of passing on their genes.

Buddhism is not evolution.
Evolution is not Buddhism.

However, my point is simply that Buddhism is compatible with evolution. Life on earth, every species is constantly changing, impermanent.

A human might get reborn as a louse due to his kamma, kamma-vipaka. He does not have to go through the evolutionary steps, that is for species as a whole, not individual members. Humans sometimes get reborn as animals, devas, etc. Animals sometimes get reborn as humans, devas, etc. Evolution shows our interconnectedness to animals biologically.

Samsara shows our interconnectedness to animals spiritually.

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