If I ordain as a Bhikkhu, I would rather have a novice disciple than a lay person kappiya. Is it possible for a monk to be live independently without relying on lay people other than when going for almsround?
How did monks from the past create kasina disks? Did they need assistance from lay people or were they able to make, for example, an earth kasina disk or white kasina disk without any help from lay people?
If you’re living in a monastery, the monastery already pay for the water and electricity, so there’s no need to have a personal kapiya. Although the monastery would need a kapiya for the monastery to handle the money thing and some things which runs out, like toothbrush, toothpaste, cleaning things, etc. Not all monasteries have super big kathina where these items comes in which lasts for more than 1 year supply’s worth.
If you’re setting up a new monastery… well, let’s just say it’s not possible for the first 5 years, by which time you should know what to do by observation and asking other monks. So don’t worry about it now.
Thank you for answering, Venerable Sir.
I have a few more questions, Venerable Sir. If a monk wants to renew passport and update his picture after ordination, does he have to go to a photo booth or do monasteries usually have cameras and cameramen to do that. Will the lay people in the monasteries take care of those things? Will they also give a monk certificate or monk ID?
It’s the government who issue passport, not monasteries. Like any citizen of the country, go to the relevant way to get passport. If have to pay, the kapiya handle it.
You think too much… you might be better of spending the time to read up vinaya.
Yes, Venerable Sir. I will study the Vinaya during this summer break from college.
You should live at an established monastery until you have at least 5 years and also finished the requirements to be on your own without a teacher for nissaya.
Then you can worry about other issues like this and by then, you will know how to deal with this.
Kappiya means one who makes things allowable.
For those who use money, they don’t care about such things and most monks live without kappiyas and handle their own affairs. This is not recommended.
Even when I lived in Kaua’i, and I lived off of alms, and lived in a public camping park, I had one friend who lived remotely who helped me with things until I got situated with donors. I also needed strangers to help me with the stakes of my tent. This type of practice—going to an unestablished area with no monasteries and living in parks—should not be done until you are way ahead of ten or fifteen vassa. Alms can easily take 5 hours round trip, when doing things like this. It is not easy, and I am a little to old to want to do this again.
Try to ordain first, get five vassa.. and then ask these questions… okay? By then you will know what to do.
Not my role to speak to that as that’s “sangha business” but as a lay person speaking to sangha, I can mention an answer to a question about a form of kappiya and sangha relations I saw that seems to be meritorious or compliant with dhamma vinaya. So this is "putting it out there " for people that live in common law countries (lots of ex british colonies etc) this may be something worth looking into (for sangha out there in the world past their nissaya period)
I was for a short time on the board of a kappiya association - so the lay community would keep and handle any funds that were donated with intent for taking care of sangha. In common law here directors have fiduciary duties - that is they are legally responsible and liable to certain things - one of which is up hold the constitution and purpose and mission of the organisation. (Can even be criminal if you don’t! But nobody mentions that in this context - but just saying to illustrate what a director is - their fiduciary duties under common law.) So the constitution was drafted in consultation with sangha, and lay people stand as directors - and the organisation was offered to sangha - we adopted an advisor from sangha - who as a role in the constitution and is appointed by the local sangha - that is the person we as kappiya (in the vinaya but also within common law directorial fiduciary duties) are responsible to (as well as lay community members). We as part of constitution are to take direction from the sangha, and the role of kappiya is invoked. There are 3-5 at a time - its a good number in case someone goes off awol a few months (as I did with life circumstances) and also those rules of asking 2 times - well that can be handled meritoriously and with monastic discretion by not asking the 3rd time - instead if it was important perhaps the 3rd request to board is ask person to stand down. There’s many reasons a kappiya may refuse 3 times and not all (probably vast majority) are benign and not nefarious - simple lack of mindfulness or forgetting for instance or recently incapacitaed or vicissitude of life which means they now life distant and away in a different region or country or perhaps they were really interested in dhamma then life tragedy struck and sort of calm collected duties of serving on a board far from their mind etc. And having that 5-ish or 3-ish directors.
The needs of the sangha we were serving we so easy to support they were clearly practicing well, they barely asked for things! I wish could support more and have it in my mind to in future - I’m in a different city at the moment. (I am not mentioning which sangha or who it is as I am no longer involved and thus don’t have consent to speak about - I would have to call them up and have a chat first, and I won’t do that as half the point is to “protect the sangha” and they probably prefer their seclusion or not being associated with the words I am writing here.
Yeah that’s a model I saw and seems very meritorious and compliant with vinaya I thought I would just put that out there as something to consider (and thats’ just my recollection and understanding - i’m sure there’s different details and aspects others would emphasise talking about this)
please forgive if any of that sounds off the mistake is entirely my own recollection and understanding - on the other hand it to me seems like a common law form that can make that relation between laity and sangha (that is the core of dhamma vinaya ) manifest - or at least one possible manifestation of it - it takes away that sangha being on a board as a director or handling money etc.
With metta
Kappiyas are very important.
The problem is young monks or even those who have not even ordained yet, fantasize about living under a tree and having no dependencies.
It sounds like you made good merit as a kappiya. Sadhu x 3.
The dhamma vinaya is relational! You sangha who practice sincerely enable the unconditional gift - caga! much merits to you too!