Do we need to perfect sila (as in the 5 precepts) before developing satipatthana?

Meditation
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I sometimes read or hear Buddhists suggesting that first one should strive to keep the 5 precepts for a sufficiently long period before contemplating the work of satipatthana.
However, this sutta shows the error in that thinking.
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/anguttara/09/an09-063.html

AN 9.63 (A iv 457)Sikkhādubbalya Sutta

— Weaknesses of the training —
[sikkhā+dubbalya]

What to do if one is not yet perfect in the five precepts.

pañc imāni, bhikkhave, sikkhā·dubbalyāni. katamāni pañca? pāṇ·ātipāto, adinn·ādānaṃ, kāmesu·micchā·cāro, musā·vādo, surā·meraya·majja·pamāda·ṭṭhānaṃ. imāni kho, bhikkhave, pañca sikkhā·dubbalyāni. These five, bhikkhus, are weaknesses of the training. Which five? The destruction of life, taking what is not given, misbehavior in sensuality, false speech, and liquors, spirits and intoxicants that cause carelessness. These five, bhikkhus, are weaknesses of the training.
imesaṃ kho, bhikkhave, pañcannaṃ sikkhā·dubbalyānaṃ pahānāya cattāro satipaṭṭhānā bhāvetabbā. katame cattāro? idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu kāye kāy·ānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhā·domanassaṃ; vedanāsu vedan·ānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhā·domanassaṃ; citte citt·ānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhā·domanassaṃ; dhammesu dhamm·ānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhā·domanassaṃ. imesaṃ kho, bhikkhave, pañcannaṃ sikkhā·dubbalyānaṃ pahānāya ime cattāro satipaṭṭhānā bhāvetabbā ti. To abandon these five weaknesses of the training, the four satipaṭṭhānas should be developped. Which four? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu remains focusing on the body in the body, ardent, understanding thoroughly, mindful, having subdued covetousness-affliction towards the world. He remains focusing on feelings in feelings, ardent, understanding thoroughly, mindful, having subdued covetousness-affliction towards the world. He remains focusing on the mind in the mind, ardent, understanding thoroughly, mindful, having subdued covetousness-affliction towards the world. He remains focusing on dhammas in dhammas, ardent, understanding thoroughly, mindful, having subdued covetousness-affliction towards the world. To abandon these five weaknesses of the training, the four satipaṭṭhānas should be developed.
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How interesting. I dont think ive heard too many people say we have to keep the 5 precepts before doing satipatthana, but certainly that they are helpful for satipatthana and other such bhavana activities. This seems to indicate that the two actually work in complement to each other if anything.

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here is a typical example today:
https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=44812&sid=260f7e505407696309b9d52e2e33ab50

Perhaps you have started your meditation without having Sila?
Do you observe the five precepts?

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Translation by sujato

Numbered Discourses 9.63
Aṅguttara Nikāya 9.63
7. Mindfulness Meditation
7. Satipaṭṭhānavagga
Weaknesses in Training and Mindfulness Meditation
Sikkhādubbalyasutta
“Mendicants, there are these five weaknesses when you’re training.
“Pañcimāni, bhikkhave, sikkhādubbalyāni.
What five?
Katamāni pañca?
Killing living creatures, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying, and using alcoholic drinks that cause negligence.
Pāṇātipāto, adinnādānaṁ, kāmesumicchācāro, musāvādo, surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānaṁ—
These are the five weaknesses when you’re training.
imāni kho, bhikkhave, pañca sikkhādubbalyāni.

To give up these five weaknesses in your training you should develop the four kinds of mindfulness meditation.
Imesaṁ kho, bhikkhave, pañcannaṁ sikkhādubbalyānaṁ pahānāya cattāro satipaṭṭhānā bhāvetabbā.
What four?
Katame cattāro?
It’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world.
Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu kāye kāyānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṁ;
They meditate observing an aspect of feelings …
vedanāsu …pe…
They meditate observing an aspect of the mind …
citte …
They meditate observing an aspect of principles—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of desire and aversion for the world.
dhammesu dhammānupassī viharati ātāpī sampajāno satimā vineyya loke abhijjhādomanassaṁ.
To give up those five weaknesses in your training you should develop these four kinds of mindfulness meditation.”
> Imesaṁ kho, bhikkhave, pañcannaṁ sikkhādubbalyānaṁ pahānāya ime cattāro satipaṭṭhānā bhāvetabbā”ti.

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May I warn the good people in this group to be careful on suttas interpretation.

Yes, you need Sīla, the five precepts, if you want any progress in meditation.

That is why there is the Threefold Training: Sīla Samadhi Paññā.
If it would be possible to attain samādhi without Sīla then the Buddha would have not teached it.

Here in this sutta, the meaning is " how you destroy the potentiality to break the Five precepts?"
In other words " How you become Sotapanna?"
Why? There are 3 kinds of abandoning (pahāna):
tadanga pahāna: abandoning by substituting the opposites: it means Sīla by abandoning the defilements that arise during the breaking of precepts and Vipassanā Ñāṇa by each Knowledge which remove certain defilements.
However Vipassanā Ñāṇa don’t abandon the defilements arisen by breaking the five precepts. You must have already the 5 precepts to develop Vipassanā Ñāṇa.
Also Vipassanā Ñāṇa don’t have the abandoning of non observance of the Precepts as fonction.
" Vikkhambana Pahāna: abandoning by suppressing: by samādhi one still nīvaranas.
Here it can not be the case in this sutta.
Samucchede Pahāna: abandoning by eradicating: it is the Noble Path which eradicates defilements.
This one is the only way to abandon completely the 5 defects of a trainee by Satipatthāna.

Therefore for all kind of abandoning you need the 5 precepts.
If you want to abandon the breaking of the 5 precepts your first task should be to… Practice the 5 precepts.

All kinds of abandoning implies five precepts.
There is no success in meditation without Sīla.

"Mendicants, an unethical person, who lacks ethics, has destroyed a vital condition for having no regrets. When there are regrets, one who has regrets has destroyed a vital condition for joy. When there is no joy, one who lacks joy has destroyed a vital condition for rapture. When there is no rapture, one who lacks rapture has destroyed a vital condition for tranquility. When there is no tranquility, one who lacks tranquility has destroyed a vital condition for bliss. When there is no bliss, one who lacks bliss has destroyed a vital condition for right immersion. When there is no right immersion, one who lacks right immersion has destroyed a vital condition for true knowledge and vision. When there is no true knowledge and vision, one who lacks true knowledge and vision has destroyed a vital condition for disillusionment. When there is no disillusionment, one who lacks disillusionment has destroyed a vital condition for dispassion. When there is no dispassion, one who lacks dispassion has destroyed a vital condition for knowledge and vision of freedom.

Suppose there was a tree that lacked branches and foliage. Its shoots, bark, softwood, and heartwood would not grow to fullness."
"dussīlassa, bhikkhave, sīlavipannassa hatūpaniso hoti avippaṭisāro. avippaṭisāre asati avippaṭisāravipannassa hatūpanisaṃ hoti pāmojjaṃ. pāmojje asati pāmojjavipannassa hatūpanisā hoti pīti. pītiyā asati pītivipannassa hatūpanisā hoti passaddhi. passaddhiyāasati passaddhivipannassa hatūpanisaṃ  hoti sukhaṃ. sukhe asati sukhavipannassa hatūpaniso hoti sammāsamādhi. sammāsamādhimhi asati sammāsamādhivipannassa hatūpanisaṃ hoti yathābhūtañāṇadassanaṃ. yathābhūtañāṇadassane asati yathābhūtañāṇadassanavipannassa hatūpanisā asati passaddhivipannassa hatūpanisaṃ hoti nibbidā. nibbidāya asati nibbidāvipannassa hatūpaniso hoti virāgo. virāge asati virāgavipannassa hatūpanisaṃ hoti vimuttiñāṇadassanaṃ."seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, rukkho sākhāpalāsavipanno. tassa papaṭikāpi na pāripūriṃ gacchati, tacopi… pheggupi… sāropi na pāripūriṃ gacchati. "

From AN 11.3

If one would interpret that practicing Satipatthāna without Sīla one can have succes in meditation (samādhi or Ñāṇa dassana) leading to abandoning defilements this would be in contradiction with this clear teaching of link of causality between Sīla Samādhi and Paññā.

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I found this to be extremely clarifying.
Sila-is-Samadhi.pdf (285.1 KB)

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Sadhu Venerable Moneyya for your input.

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