Discussions with Sujin Boriharnwanaket 2024

[RobertK]

This series of posts is inspired by the book Nina van Gorkom wrote in 2000, Dhamma in Cambodia.

It will include translations from Thai of the recorded Dhamma discussions held in Cambodia in August 2024. Many of these I paraphrase to exclude repetition and improve clarity… I also add sections of English discussions at the hotel where Ajarn Sujin was staying (where I was also staying with my family) as well as other talks in Nepal, India, and Thailand in 2024, where I met with Sujin. I also add in my own comments and quotes from the texts when it seems useful, as well as discussions with other friends around the same time. And recount some other trips with my family.
As well I mention part of a discussion on a Zoom session I participated in while in Sri Lanka, where we discussed the Abhidhamma. Just a day or two after that discussion I received the sad news that Nina had passed away peacefully at the age of 95 on December 31 2023. The posts are roughly chronological and I add to the thread when I think of something useful.

In Cambodia over 500 laypeople, monks, and nuns attended the sessions held at the Angkor-Kizuna Hall at the Royal University in Phnom Penh

In 2000 the facilitator and translator from Thai to Khmer was the great Cambodian Dhamma teacher Buth Sawong (Butsavong, Buthsawong, ប៊ុត សាវង្ស ) - and in 2024 again Buth Sawong helped with the translations along with the main organiser Sopphana Rith Chem.
Sujin - now 98 years old- was tireless in explaining Dhamma and replying to questions.

In the translations I used translation apps and at the meetings in Cambodia I had a friend (Mean Sok) sitting next to me giving real time translations. Naturally there may be some errors that have crept in so that is something to be aware of.
.

[RobertK]

In late December to January 2, 2024 I went with my family to Sri Lanka. First on our agenda was visiting the International Institute of Theravada in order to meet Venerable Subhuti and venerable Maggavihari.
It is an impressive vihara- not because of the facilities, which were good, but because of the reverence the bhikkhus show to Dhamma and Vinaya.
I listened to a talk on the Abhidhamma by ven Maggavihari in English where he explained kalapas and the lakkhana rupa with examples from daily life.
On a youtube video Ven. Maggavihari: "the most important way [to develop panna] is listening to good doctrines, studying them, listening to good Dhamma talks, questioning the Dhamma, clarifying the doubtful point, and also studying certain deep spiritual doctrines…”

After the talk while I was with Ven. Subhuti a young bhikkhu asked me about anatta and said he wondered if some elements could be ‘controllable’ to some extent (I paraphrase). Anatta is a key aspect of the Dhamma and it should be stressed. In fact all elements are anatta and what we might think of as “us” doing things and planning things is merely conditioned processes of nama and rupa. This is so hard to see, it seems “we” are doing, “we” are choosing.
Visuddhimagga xvii312

The absence of interestedness on the part of ignorance, such as 'Formations [sankhara ] must be made to occur by me, or on the part of formations, such as ‘vinnana must be made to occur by us’. One who sees this rightly abandons self view by understanding the absence of a maker.

Ven Subhuti explained different aspects of Vinaya including the rules around the requisites such as robes and showed me the vihara storeroom which is all arranged according to Vinaya. There is also a well-stocked library.
The vihara has a knowledgeable senior bhikkhu, venerable Devananda, and any Bhikkhus wanting to live their must follow the Vinaya in all details. I had a brief discussion with Ven. Subhuti and Ven. Devananda about the two ways of sukkhavipassaka and the jhana labhi.
The venerable Devananda gave my children the precepts and now Anna sometimes reminds her siblings that lying is bad, “the monk said that”.

After the visit to IIT we were in a van on the way to Anuradhapura and I joined a zoom discussion with Sujin, Nina van Gorkom (just before her death), Sarah and Jon Abbott, Sukinder and many others. I mentioned the vihara and there were questions from a couple of people on the zoom about the understanding there and I said that what I had heard was all useful. And more than mere lists which is sometimes the way Abhidhamma is taught.
On zoom Sujin spoke more on what is arising now and the characteristics of dhammas. It is happening right at this moment and by understanding more about this there will be the right conditions for direct understanding.

It was great to be in Sri Lanka where there is such history of Dhamma and we also spent some time at the Mahabodhi tree in the Mahamevnāwa park, a very special area with masses of devout pilgrims.
Nearby is a statue of the great Bhikkuni Sanghamitta - she was the arahat who carried the sapling from the original tree in India.

In the Mahavamsa it states about the time when Mahinda first brought the Dhamma to Sri Lanka:

But the Queen Anulā, who had come with five hundred women to greet the theras, attained to the second stage of salvation. And the queen Anulā with her five hundred women said to the king: “We would fain receive the pabbajjā-ordination, your Majesty.”

The king said to a thera, “Bestow on them the pabbajja!” But the thera made answer to the king: “It is not allowed to us. O great king, to bestow the pabbajjā on women. But in Pataliputta there lives a bhikkhunī, my younger sister, known by the name Saṅghamittā. She, who is ripe in experience, shall come hither bringing with her the southern branch of the great Bodhi-tree of the king of samaṇas, O king of men, and (bringing) also bhikkhunīs renowned (for holiness); to this end send a message to the king my father. When this therī is here she will confer the pabbajjā upon these women.”
(Mahāvaṃsa ch. XV

Thinking of the times Nina van Gorkom was in Sri Lanka I found this passage in The Perfections Developed in Daily Life (1980).

Mindfulness may not often arise and our understanding may be weak, but we should not be misled as to the true goal of our life. In all sincerity we should scrutinize ourselves: do we cling to an image of ourselves, wanting to be full of kusala, with a great deal of sati, and to be very peaceful, or do we want to know ourselves as we really are, our defilements included?

Here is another from Nina’s Pilgrimage to Sri Lanka (1977)

Acharn Sujin [said] that right understanding is not a matter of catching the moment a particular reality appears. If we believe that there is a particular order in the appearing of realities, we think of concepts instead of being aware of whatever presents itself. Sometimes the object of mindfulness is seeing, sometimes thinking, sometimes visible object. There is no rule with regard to the object sati will be aware of.

Venerable Dhammadharo asked, “Who is
trying?” and I [Nina] answered, “Self wants to know” [‘self’ meaning subtle self view]. He replied that people usually give the correct answer, but, do they realize the truth?

We forget to be mindful of clinging when it appears. When we keep on thinking of seeing instead of being mindful of seeing which appears now, seeing cannot be known as it is. When we have doubt about characteristics, or when we are discouraged about our lack of sati, these
moments should also be studied. Any reality can be the object of mindfulness, no matter whether we like that object or not.

She [Sujin] reminded us to be mindful of only one reality at a time, as it appears through one of the six doors. […] “When a reality appears, it does so only through one doorway. Leave the other doorways alone.”

When they were near the Ruvanvelisaya Stupa:

Acharn Sujin remarked:
“If sati is not accumulated now, it is not possible to attain enlightenment.
Enlightenment can be attained. In the Buddha’s time many attained it. The development of sati is very natural; it is not too difficult if we are not forgetful. But when sati does not arise, we should not have regret. When regret appears there can be mindfulness even of regret.”

While one walks around the stupa and different realities are “studied”, the past time when arahats walked here and taught satipatthåna seems very near.

[RobertK]

On May 27th my family flew to Varanasi to meet with Ajarn Sujin and others. She had been in Lucknow speaking to a large group and arrived in Varanasi the day before us. My longtime Dhamma friend Sukinder Narula was translating the Thai to Hindi for the audience.

We met her briefly that evening and arranged to meet the next morning for a Dhamma discussion in English.
At 5am my family left the hotel in a rickshaw that we waved down, to go to the Ganges river in an area where open cremations take place. There were five of us crammed in but it was still comfortable.

The rickshaw navigated hordes of people, sadhus (holy men with matted hair), numerous cows and other animals. Ryan (age 11) sat next to me and said “India is wild!”. It was not new to me and I enjoyed the sight and sounds. Ryan’s attention was drawn to the things he hasn’t seen before - but in fact no Ryan in reality, there is only seeing, color, hearing, sound, thinking and so on. His thoughts were a little different to mine and that is the way it always is, everyone has very different accumulations.
Nevertheless, the sense door processes and the mind door processes (where thinking occurs) always follow a sequence no matter for the adult or child, wise or foolish.

Anna (age 4 ) was also looking around and had a competition with her sister Nina to see who could count the most cows. Then her attention was drawn to some people who had put mats on the ground and had little trinkets and beads and a few small toys for sale. Desire (tanha ) was controlling her interest in these simple items but also for all of us desire is very often arising - although it may search out more subtle or impressive objects.
I had spoken to my wife and the children about the nature of life - that actually there is no self, only conditioned elements.
It is like it says in the simile of the puppet.
The Puppet - Sela

Mara: By whom has this puppet been created?
Where is the maker of the puppet?
Where has the puppet arisen?
Where does the puppet cease?”

Then the bhikkhuni Sela, having understood, “This is Mara the Evil One,” replied to him in verses:

“This puppet is not made by itself,
Nor is this misery made by another.
It has come to be dependent on a cause;
With the cause’s breakup it will cease.

We are fooled by the khandhas but all elements are conditioned, and thus what we like or dislike, and the objects experienced all arise due to manifold conditions that are themselves conditioned. No one but a Buddha could comprehend this and then explain it so that we can also gradually understand.
Narada MulaPatthana sayadaw in Guide to Conditional Relations writes that
xii Preface

If one considers the teaching of Abhidhamma starting with
Dhs., and ending with Patthana., it will be seen that aggregates,
bases, elements and so on are expounded in them.
This shows that the realities, with which Abhidhamma
deals, consist of aggregates, bases and elements that
behave according to their own natures and, therefore, are
not dependent on one’s wishes. In other words, the
realities behave according to the principle of anatta.

From time to I remind the children about how desire works. Ryan plays an online game called Roblox and occasionally asks me to buy some items that give him an advantage when playing. One of my responses is to refuse and tell him to do homework instead, but I also use it is an example of desire and conditions working their way. There is no self in this process but usually we are ignorant of the processes: we should take the opportunity to learn about them, as they occur.
Gamblers feel happy when they are winning and dejected when they lose. When thinking about their losses unpleasant feelings arise in conjunction with aversion (dosa mula citta) but when they are thinking of other things there may be happy feeling - and then they may again think about the loss . The serious gamblers try to replicate the pleasant times when they won. It is all showing the truth that the Buddha taught about Dhamma.

[RobertK]

When we got to the Ganges river we walked until
arriving at a place where for millennia the bodies of the dead are burned on piles of timber. The poor have basic and limited amount of wood on the pyre and the wealthy have large amounts of expensive varieties of timber attractively arranged. But all have come to death, as we will too.

It was the hot season and we didn’t see western tourists but there were groups of friendly Indian pilgrims and some of them wanted selfies with my children. Anna saw another ‘shop’ (a mat laid on the ground ) and I let her buy a couple of items.

We might think “ah seeing a dead body, that is a good object for mind development”. And it may be a reminder but actually whether by the Ganges or anywhere there are only seeing, color, hearing ,sound and the other ayatanas. Thus every moment, whatever the object is, there is the possibility of understanding growing.

Someone reading this might wonder "if Buddhists are often aware of the different moments - which are only colour and seeing and the other doors, doesn’t that take the fun out of life. It makes everything the same? "

The Buddha’s teaching does lead to a sober assessment of the various joys that we are used to, but only the anagami and arahats have given up all sense desire. Thus we still, whether laypeople or bhikkhu, lead the life that is appropriate to our station.

Question: don’t we have to give up everything?

Eventually, but we need to be realistic. The first type of clinging to be given up is wrong view.

Vism. xvii 245. And here [false-] view clinging, etc., are abandoned first because they
are eliminated by the path of stream-entry. Sense-desire clinging is abandoned
later because it is eliminated by the path of Arahantship. This is the order of
their abandoning.
Diṭṭhupādānādīni cettha paṭhamaṃ pahīyanti sotāpattimaggavajjhattā.
Kāmupādānaṃ pacchā, arahattamaggavajjhattāti ayametesaṃ pahānakkamo

Here I would like to add a point about sense desire clinging.
It is obvious even to the non-Buddhist that sense desires rule our lives.

xvii 246. Sense-desire clinging, however, is taught first among them because of
the breadth of its objective field and because of its obviousness. For it has a
broad objective field because it is associated with eight kinds of consciousness
((22)–(29)). The others have a narrow objective field because they are associated
with four kinds of consciousness ((22), (23), (26) and (27)).

Wrong views, especially self view, are not so obvious at all.

sense-desire clinging that is obvious because of this generation’s love of
attachment (see M I 167), not so the other kinds.

Hence we read many suttas rightly extolling the dangers of sense desire. And the new Buddhist quickly sees the truth in that. They may then feel they should first stamp down on sense desire.
This can lead to problems. If they have some apparent success then they feel they can control the mind by dint of will. Or if they don’t succeed they feel they are failing. Or they go through a cycle of winning and losing in this regard.

But what is prime is eliminating wrong view.

SN 2.16 Vasudatta Sutta: Vasudatta

Standing to one side, the young deva Vasudatta recited this verse in the presence of the Blessed One:
Deva:" As if smitten by a sword, As if his head were on fire,
A bhikkhu should wander mindfully To abandon sensual lust."

Buddha:"As if smitten by a sword, As if his head were on fire,
A bhikkhu should wander mindfully to abandon identity view.

While walking and enjoying the many sights along the river I was also reflecting on how thoughts and all the other elements arise and are conditioned.

[RobertK]

When we returned to the hotel it was time to meet with Sujin.

Ryan had a question related to anatta and conditions.
Ryan: if we are conditioned in every moment, are we robots?
Sujin: Can a robot think?
Ryan:
No.
Sujin: can a robot be bad or good?
Ryan: No.
Sujin: No, so what is it that cannot be good or bad at all?
It is that which cannot experience anything. Like this (touches table) it cannot be good or bad, right?
So we have to understand the truth of each reality.

Nina had a question about the pali phrase sabbe sankhara anicca which she had memorized.
Nina: so the Nina that was there a minute ago has gone or changed?
Sujin: gone.

Sujin: it is amazing the children are so interested in Dhamma.
Robert: sometimes they are sometimes they want to play or watch TV. It is the same with me.
Sujin: that is the way Dhamma is.

Robert: yes.
I was talking to someone about this. He wants to change himself to become like an Arahant.
I said Dhamma is not really about changing… It’s all about understanding whatever is there, like we always talk about. But people find that hard to grasp .

Sujin:
Dhamma is so subtle. Even it’s there now, seeing, for example.

Sujin:
About that moment, it’s not there anymore. And then a new moment.

Robert:
They want to know how to understand, but don’t understand what’s already there.

Sujin:
So very deep. But learn to understand that everything is Dhamma.

[RobertK]

Another topic the children bring up is where the Buddha is now?

I asked Nina whether there is NIna now in the ultimate sense.
Nina: no.
Robert: what is there?
Nina: just conditions.
Robert:
Yes. And what are the conditions for the continuation of these conditions?
Nina: I don’t know.

robert. The main conditions are greed and ignorance. Did the Buddha have greed and ignorance at all?
Nina: not at all.

Robert: A simile of life, of this mass of conditions is a large fire.
How does the fire keep burning?
Nina: it needs wood.
Robert: right it needs wood or other fuel. And if no more fuel is added what happens to the fire?
Nina: it goes out.
Robert: and so it is for the conditions that make up what we call a human or any being.
Nina: so the Buddha is not reborn.
Robert: right. So the arahats have stopped adding fuel to the fire called life.

In the evening I met with Sukinder and Sopphana Rith and one of the topics was the way of natural development. They repeated what we learned that when there is any pushing or hoping for results it hinders seeing what has arisen now. Then again we can fall the other way - and give up interest in development completely.

[RobertK]

Ryan: why are bad habits so hard to get rid of?

A. Sujin:
at the Ganges river today what dhammas were there? Were they pleasant or unpleasant?
Ryan: it was noisy.

Sujin: We always want pleasant things. But when something unpleasant happens, why is that? If you hear a loud sound that you don’t like, why is that? What’s the reason for that?

Ryan: Kamma and conditions.

A. Sujin: It’s kamma from the past. Can we change that sound?
Ryan : No.
Sujin If you feel annoyed or unhappy, what’s that?

Ryan: kamma.
Robert: new kamma [actually new kilesa - it may not be at the level of kamma].

A. Sujin: How did you feel when you saw the dead bodies by the river?

Nina: I felt sad for their loss.

Sujin: But everyone has to be like that one day, right?

Nina: If they did good deeds they will be reborn in a good place.

Robert: What’s more important, Nina? To do lots of good deeds or to have understanding of what the Buddha taught about reality?

Nina: understanding.
Robert: why?
Nina: so maybe you can have more understanding and do good deeds.

Robert: acceptance of the moment by understanding it is actually the way to happiness, really.
People want to change things, but if they can understand things are conditioned, then that takes away so much wrong thinking and reactions. Just understand whatever is present, it makes life much easier.

[RobertK]

After Varanasi the Thai group were due to fly back to Bangkok. I arranged a van with driver to take my family to Bodhgaya. We were pleasantly surprised when the van arrived out the hotel as it had enough seating for 12 people - making for a comfortable time in the long trip with only five of us in it.
Bodhgaya was much more developed than when I last visited in 1999, so many hotels, markets and vehicles. Our hotel had a view of the MahaBodhi temple and early in the morning we took a taxi from our hotel to the site where the Bodhisatta attained SammasamBuddha. The entrance procedure was well organised and we soon entered the Mahabodhi Temple garden.
As we were walking around I started talking about the Abhidhamma and that we would soon find the place where the Buddha contemplated the Patthana, the book of conditions. My wife asked the children to listen carefully and they asked me about this. Nina van Gorkom wrote a beautiful introductory book to this most profound and important section of the Tipitaka, Conditionality of Life. In the preface she writes;

the Buddha, during the fourth week after his enlightenment, sat in
the “Jewel House”, in the north west direction, and contemplated the Abhidhamma. .

She quotes from the Atthasalini (The Expositor, the Commentary to the Dhammasangani, the first book of
the Abhidhamma.

And while he contemplated the contents of the “Dhammasangani”, his
body did not emit rays; and similarly with the contemplation of the next five books. But when, coming to the “Great Book”, he began to contemplate the twenty-four universal causal relations of condition, of presentation, and so on, his omniscience certainly found its opportunity therein. For as the great fish Timiratipingala finds room only in the great ocean eighty-four thousand yojanas in depth, so his omniscience truly finds room only in the Great Book. Rays of six colours-indigo, golden, red, white, tawny, and dazzling-issued from the Teacher’s body, as he was contemplating the subtle and abstruse Dhammaby his omniscience which had found such opportunity.

We soon found the plaque showing this special area. And I explained that for each moment many different conditions have to coincide.
The Commentaries also often refer to the understanding expressed by the Buddha in the Patthana.
Without the profound teaching of the SammaSamBuddha we would always think that “I” am looking at this or that but the commentary to the Sammanaphala sutta (p118 Fruits of Recluseship), talking about looking ahead or looking aside, breaks this down into various conditions as explained in the Patthana.

the eye is a support condition : forms are an object condition; adverting is a proximity, contiguity, decisive support, absence, and disappearance condition; light is a decisive support condition; feeling etc are conascence conditions. Thus looking ahead and looking aside are discerned in the assemblage of these conditions. Therein, who is it that looks ahead? Who looks aside?”

the Subcommentary adds:

Looking ahead and looking aside being discerned by way of the five aggregates, who is it, separate from those aggregates, that looks ahead? Who looks aside? The meaning is: there is no one who looks ahead, no one who looks aside

The Satipatthana sutta commentary also explains looking:

Within, it is said, there certainly is no self or soul which looks straight on or looks away from the front. Still, at the arising of the thought “I shall look straight on,” and with that thought the process of oscillation (vayo dhatu) originating from mind, [citta samutthana] bringing into being bodily expression [viññatti] arises. Thus owing to the diffusion of the process of oscillation born of mental activity [cittakiriyavayodhatu vipphara], the lower eyelid goes down and the upper eyelid goes up. Surely there is no one who opens with a contrivance.

Thereupon, eye-consciousness arises fulfilling the function of sight [tato cakkhu viññanam dassana kiccam sadhentam uppajjati], it is said. Clear comprehension of this kind here is indeed called the clear comprehension of non-delusion [evam sampajananam panettha asammoha sampajaññam nama]. Further, clear comprehension of non-delusion should be also understood, here, through accurate knowledge of the root (mula pariñña), through the casual state (agantuka bhava) and through the temporary state [tavakalika bhava].

Learning and contemplating the 24 conditions explained in the Patthana help us begin to remove the wrong view of self.

We might believe mindfulness is some sort of attention or focusing on some object, but satipatthana is a momentary arising of insight that understands to some degree the anattaness of a reality.

This profound type of mindfulness is only possible during a Buddhasasana, and only if there is enough accumulated understanding based on wise consideration of correct Dhamma.
The commentary to the satipatthana sutta
The Section on the Modes of Deportment

The Buddha, after dealing in the aforesaid manner with body-contemplation in the form of respiration-meditation, in detail, said: “And further,” in order to deal exhaustively with body-contemplation, here, according to the meditation on the modes of deportment [iriyapatha].

Gacchanto va gacchamiti pajanati “When he is going (a bhikkhu) understands: ‘I am going.’”

In this matter of going, readily do dogs, jackals and the like, know when they move on that they are moving. But this instruction on the modes of deportment was not given concerning similar awareness, because awareness of that sort belonging to animals does not shed the belief in a living being, does not knock out the percept of a soul, and neither becomes a subject of meditation nor the development of the Arousing of Mindfulness.

Going. The term is applicable both to the awareness of the fact of moving on and to the knowledge of the (true) characteristic qualities of moving on. The terms sitting, standing and lying down, too, are applicable in the general sense of awareness and in the particular sense of knowledge of the (true) characteristic qualities. Here (in this discourse) the particular and not the general sense of awareness is to be taken. [b

From the sort of mere awareness denoted by reference to canines and the like, proceeds the idea of a soul, the perverted perception, with the belief that there is a doer and an experiencer. One who does not uproot or remove that wrong perception owing to non-opposition to that perception and to absence of contemplative practice cannot be called one who develops anything like a subject of meditation.

[RobertK]

In June 2024 we met with Sujin at the Dhamma Study and Support Foundation in Bangkok. Along with my family came @Ṭhānuttamo the author of Magadhabhasa (Pāḷi) - A Compendious Grammar, who shortly after re-ordained as a bhikkhu and is now living in Sri Lanka. My Pali is very basic - I have a reasonable vocabulary, but trying to get the grammar of any phrase is time consuming (at my low, low level) and I admire those who have the patience and intellect to master it. It must be a great asset for studying the texts.

Here are a few quotes from the discussion

“What is there is a reality, different one, just conditioned to arise and falls away instantly right now.”

“It’s that which is real, no matter what—sweetness at the moment of tasting. It’s real. It’s a dhamma.”

“So instead of talking about different names and different languages, the reality is there. It’s true for everyone, any moment, anywhere, anytime.”

This last phrase about reality regardless of language, place or time is a truth we need to understand. Whether at the time of the Buddha, now or in the future. The nature of seeing, visible object, hearing, sound, touch, hardness, thinking and so on are arising. Whether man or woman, Thai , Cambodian or American, deva, or animal these elements arise and cease. Seeing consciousness is a moment called in Pali cakkhu viññāṇa (eye-consciousness) . In Thai it is จักษุวิญญาณ ( “chakkhu-winyan”) so it is close in the way it is pronounced to the Pali. But in whichever language it is described its nature is the same.

I said to Sujin that I seemed to understand four of the khandhas, the aggregates. But I wondered about sanna-khandha . She said “it is arising right at this moment”. And this is the only way we can really understand what we learn from the texts. The realities described in the Tipitaka , the dhatus, the khandhas, the ayatanas are not some words to be memorised, they are to be known.

Sujin: the realization of the truth of reality is not in the book, it’s not that which has gone, or that which one tries so hard to have it arise. Impossible, as long as what is there now is not known yet.

That’s why , to understand what is there right now, has to be considered carefully.

We forget about each moment because there are conditions to think about other subjects or other moments instantly. For example, what is paticca-samuppada?
What should be known at the moment of what is paticca-samuppada?
Not just the story or what is there in the book, but it’s real, it’s true. At the moment of what is real, what is that or what is there right now?

If not known, [there is no real] understanding of Dhamma, just intellectual understanding.

A. Sujin: For example, at moment of seeing, there are many cetasikas arising together, performing the function, but they do not show up to be known.

So now, the reality which is there from birth, not just in this birth, years and years ago, arising from birth, on and on to death, what is seen is by that which arises to experience it, the chief of experiencing, the characteristic of what which appears, no matter it’s sound or sight or smell, even that is not known at all.
Many, many realities are hidden because of ignorance. Ignorance covers up the truth.

Understanding the subtlety of all kinds of realities is the way, the only way, letting go the idea of self.
When right understanding is there, less ignorance is there until right understanding develops to the degree that it can realize whatever is there as it is, anatta, all dhammas are anatta.

Robert (to Ryan): This sounds very deep and difficult, right? And hard to comprehend, but it’s what is real right now. It explains what is happening right now.
Like the seeing, and the thinking, are they the same reality or are they different?
Ryan: different.
Robert: yes. And it’s conditioned. Every moment is conditioned. But usually we’re lost in this world of concepts, of table and people, and we’re not aware, there’s no awareness that citta is changing each moment.
So Buddhism is not something unusual, it’s describing exactly what is real.
Is it useful to know that?
Ryan: yes.

A. Sujin: Nothing arises without the right conditions, yet no one truly knows this. For instance, there is seeing, but it is not yet understood. How can one recognize just one reality at a time?

Take the example of seeing. No matter how much is said about it, there is still the sense of I see. This is āsava (mental defilement).
Even the thought, I am sitting or I am seeing, arises—this is diṭṭhāsava [the influx of clinging to views].

At that moment, asava (defilement) lingers unknowingly, this is avijjāsava [ignorance].

Not knowing what is really there. So, what does avijjā (ignorance) fail to understand right now? It fails to see what truly exists.

Avijjā is obscuring the truth. The idea of self is present because the truth is not recognized. Understanding is not just about words—it is about seeing the nature of reality. For instance, when we discuss seeing, we are not talking about thinking.

Reality arises and disappears instantly. It has been so for eons. the world seems permanent when it does not appear as it is.

But in reality, everything is breaking apart rapidly—each phenomenon conditioned to arise and immediately fall away.

We don’t need to study the 24 types of paccaya (conditions) in a strict order. Any moment, whatever can be understood, can be understood right now.

For instance, without the eye base (cakkhu-pasāda), there can be no seeing. So what is the condition (paccaya) for seeing? The eye base is one. But by what kind of paccaya?

Kamma is one condition. Without the eye base, seeing cannot arise. At birth, the mind (citta) is already conditioned by kamma—leading to different kinds of existence.

Kamma conditions only one birth moment. After that, seeing and thinking do not happen simultaneously. The vipāka (result) of past kamma conditions the birth-consciousness (paṭisandhi citta), which then falls away.

Yet, kamma continues to bear results—on and on, from the first moment onward. The continuity of life is maintained by bhavaṅga (life-continuum), which persists until death.

How many bhavaṅga moments have passed? They are uncountable, even right now.

By understanding the truth, ignorance (avijjā) and attachment (taṇhā) can gradually fade. The words in the Tipiṭaka point to what is real right now. But just understanding the concepts of Dhamma is not enough.

The path to realization requires wisdom. Otherwise, it is useless to merely talk about the truth.

Yet, understanding, once developed, is not lost. Even if there is no current condition to think about it, the realization of truth remains.

For instance, Dhamma—what is it? It may be known conceptually, but it is not yet fully understood. That is why it must be developed moment by moment.

Many conditions arise throughout the day—thoughts of attachment or aversion—but it doesn’t matter at all because what is there is by condition. Strong and very firm understanding develops to condition moment of directly understanding hardness or of anything, right now.

One question was “how long would it take to really understand?”

Sujin: It depends on how much understanding is there right now. Right understanding is very truthful. It knows what level of understanding is right now about what is there, like seeing, hearing, and so on. Anything now is a test of the understanding. How well do we understand it? Very well or not very well?

Robert: And paññā can’t be conjured up. Paññā arises because of conditions.
A. Sujin: Among all conditions, Paññā is the best, most precious.
Robert: But paññā doesn’t want to understand. Paññā just understands that’s its nature.
Sujin: Because its nature is not wanting. It’s just understanding. When it’s there, ignorance cannot be there.

Sopphana Rith was at the discussion and he asked Ryan about the benefits of kusala such as good future results. He said that studying the Dhamma was a type of kusala that leads to wisdom in this life and future lives.
Then there was a discussion about savaka Bodhisattas. There are three types of Bodhisatta, the one who will become a Sammasambuddha, Omniscient
Buddha, someone who will become a Pacceka Buddha, Silent Buddha,
and the one who is a Savaka Bodhisatta, who is a Learner who becomes enlightened during a Buddha sasana.
(see Cariyapitaka atthakatha, nidanakatha).
Nina van Gorkom wrote about this: p.142 -143 of Understanding Realities Now:
Nina’s travelogues

We can become
“learners”, savaka Bodhisattas, by continuing to develop understanding
of what appears now with confidence and without expecting anything.
We are beginners and what can be understood depends on conditions.
Some people seek peacefulness but everything that arises now, also when
it is not peaceful, should be known as not self.
[…]
all that is real now in our
life are citta, cetasika and rupa. Intellectual understanding of what is
real can eventually lead to direct understanding, to satipatthana.

She listed the 4 factors of stream entry including yoniso manisikara, wise attention.

As to “wise attention”, the commentary explains that this is attention to impermanence, dukkha and anatta.
[…]
These are the essential conditions leading to the penetration of the
four noble Truths. Gradually the true nature of the realities that appear
can be penetrated. As we read, there has to be wise attention to the
characteristics of impermanence, dukkha and anatta. However, first of
all there have to be right awareness and direct understanding of the
realities appearing through the six doors. Nama has to be known as
nama and rupa as rupa. We read, consider and discuss Dhamma just
in order to understand the reality of this moment.

[RobertK]

In July I was back in Bangkok and had a discussion with A. Sujin and others.
Here are some excerpts:

A. Sujin:
It’s there that it can be known as it is, not as I see."
“And when there is the understanding of seeing, there can be understanding of hearing, too.”
“Just learn about what is there in life closer and closer to this moment.”
“That before seeing, there’s no seeing.”
“Seeing is not that which is seen,”
“Does anyone make it arise, the seeing?”
“Whatever now appears is conditioned to arise”

Robert (comment on this): The seeing process occurs almost an uncountable number of times in one day. Yet every brief moment of seeing an object arises because of complex conditions - no one can make it arise, but if the conditions are there it must arise.
Likewise objects such as feeling, hardness, desire, aversion and the other objects listed in the Satipatthana sutta are arising very frequently . Whether one focuses or doesn’t focus. Whether one sits under a tree, urinates, walks up and down, looks behind, looks in front the objects are appearing. But just as color (the object of seeing) is beyond the ken of a blind man , so the real nature of each object is hidden without right view.

On the other hand if right view is firm then those same objects begin to show their absolute nature, not because “I” want them to. Not because wisdom wants to know but because the eye of wisdom is starting to open and is not impaired. Just as if a blind man was healed and could begin to can see various objects.

A. Sujin: Even it’s there, it’s not known at all because no attention to the nature, the reality, the characteristic of seeing

Here I copy a transcript from another discussion:

Sujin: In Thailand some people spend their time going north, west, south, to look for dhamma. But when that anyone understands what dhamma is, one doesn’t have to go anywhere, because any moment is dhamma. So it depends on understanding from hearing and considering as pariyatti[intellectual undersatnding], which can condition patipatti[direct understanding], which the Thai use to term patibat. Patipatti means that which reaches reality with right understanding from pariyatti.

Without hearing and considering as pariyatti, no conditions for direct awareness to begin to understand reality, which is so very deep. For example, who can think about that which is eye-base or eye-sense as ayatana, at moment of seeing. At this moment, what is seeing is ayatana, and seeing itself, the manayatana, and the pasada rupa is cakkhayatana and cetasikas which arises with the seeing is dhammayatana. All four have to be present at that moment, or now at this moment. So people just read about ayatana and can remember the six and the twelve, but not knowing ayatanas right now, the living ones, the real ones, not the past ones. So by understanding ayatana at moment of experiencing anything, it is ayatana, right then. And not just one ayatana, not just only the inner and the outer, but citta cetasikas and rupas right then. All are conditioned just to condition one moment of seeing.

Back to the discussion in July:

Sujin: So just learn about the truth and then who realized the truth that we have heard, begin to understand what is meant by realization or enlightenment.

Carmen (from Holland):But isn’t it a bit of an endless road?
Sarah: It’s a long road. It’s a slow road. But this is the way to understand that life now, life in the past, life in the future, actually just consists of these different paramattha dhammas that we’re talking about, seeing and what is seen and so on.

We may not be pleased to hear that the path is gradual and long. However, we can rejoice that now is the time of a Buddha Sasana. All those myriad of disciples of the Buddha were like us before they attained.

We should accept the subtlety and depth of the teachings. Anuruddha had mastery of jhana and superhuman powers but still needed correction.

Anuruddha Sutta (AN 3:131)

Then Ven. Anuruddha […] said to Ven. Sāriputta, “Here, by means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human, I see the thousand-fold cosmos. And my persistence is aroused & unsluggish. My mindfulness is established & unmuddled. My body is calm & unaroused. My mind is concentrated & gathered into singleness. And yet my mind is not released from the effluents through lack of clinging/sustenance.”

Ven. Sāriputta: “My friend, when the thought occurs to you, ‘By means of the divine eye, purified & surpassing the human, I see the thousand-fold cosmos,’ that is related to your conceit.
When the thought occurs to you, ‘My persistence is aroused & unsluggish. My mindfulness is established & unmuddled. My body is calm & unaroused. My mind is concentrated & gathered into singleness,’ that is related to your restlessness. When the thought occurs to you, ‘And yet my mind is not released from the effluents through lack of clinging/sustenance,’ that is related to your anxiety.

[RobertK]

In August we came to Cambodia where A. Sujin was invited to speak.

I gave a short opening talk at the hall in Phnom Penh and include a summary here:

In the Anguttara nikaya
Anandasutta
There is a discussion between Ananda and Sariputta which talks about how understanding grows.
SuttaCentralAnanda Sutta

"Then, just as those [bhikkhus] learned and memorized it, […] think about and consider the teaching in their heart, examining it with the mind.

[…]
From time to time they go up to those bhikkhus and ask them questions :‘Why, sir, does it say this? What does that mean? ’Those venerables clarify what is unclear, reveal what is obscure, and dispel doubt regarding the many doubtful matters.

. […] And it’s how they come to understand what they haven’t understood before."

Thus now is the opportunity to hear and understand what hasn’t been understood. To ask questions and consider carefully the replies.
.

The Abhidhamma is different from subjects we learned at school as Abhidhamma is happening now - It describes life as it truly is.

As a new buddhist, some decades ago, I was much interested in the results of satipatthana. So I tried techniques that held out the promise of attainments.
In other words I was driven by a wrong view of self and lobha (unwholesome desire).

Later I learned to see that focusing and concentrating are different from sati.
The path is one of non-attachment all the way. Panna (wisdom) can understand this but lobha can’t.

However, lobha can be understood when it arises and so the right path can be discerned. And thus today and the following days we will learn much about what satipatthana and what it means - that all is anatta, dhammas are not me, not mine, no self.

[RobertK]

At the hall:

Sujin:
If we do not understand the words that the Buddha has taught we will not know the Dhamma of Sammasambuddha. Therefore, we should study every word with utmost respect.

If we do not study the Dhamma of the Sammasambuddha the Sammasambuddha how long will it take for us to understand the truth?

Sujin: I would like to ask the audience what is happening now?..

Now there is hearing and hearing is a Dhamma. Who is hearing?
The answer is there are only elements that are conditioned to arise and that cease., no self.

Questioner: Do we need to go to a special place to learn Dhamma.

Sujin: We don’t need to go any place to find Dhamma because dhammas are arising now . However do we really understand Dhamma now?

Questioner: No

Sujin: that is correct.

Sujin then spoke about sacca parami and that we need to be truthful about our understanding. The Dhamma is incredibly subtle and takes a long time to properly comprehend. Overestimating our level of understanding means we miss the profundity - and so will go wrong.

Robert: Satipatthana and also some objects of samatha can be developed amongst a busy laylife.

Anguttara nikaya 11.12
2. Recollection
With Mahānāma
“A noble disciple whose mind is straight gains inspiration in the meaning, gains inspiration in the Dhamma, gains joy connected with the Dhamma. When he is joyful, rapture arises. For one with a rapturous mind, the body becomes tranquil. One tranquil in body feels pleasure. For one feeling pleasure, the mind becomes concentrated. Mahānāma, you should develop this recollection of the Buddha while walking, standing, sitting, and lying down. You should develop it while engaged in work and while living at home in a house full of children.

Mahanama had already reached a stage of enlightenment and thus his recollections of the six objects would be easily fruitful. But anyone who has confidence in the Dhamma can also benefit. And it doesn’t need to be methodical ( which can morph into ‘tedious’ ).
When we are considering aspects of the Dhamma that can be also Dhammānussati (Dhammanusati) as there is appreciation of the Dhamma.

Today I was listening to a translation of a sutta about dependent origination ( Paticcasamuppada, Paṭiccasamuppāda) with the Commentary while watching my children swimming. At different times I was in admiration of the Dhamma, of the Buddha who discovered it, and the Sangha who preserved it. We should be aware though that simply bringing to mind one of the recollection ( Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha, our virtue, our generosity, and virtues of the Deva) is no guarantee of kusala citta.
Kusala citta can’t be forced to arise.

Regarding the development of satipatthana, this depends on correct intellectual understanding of Dhamma. There should be clear understanding of the utterly no self nature of the world (sunnata).
We may make effort to see the present moment but with the idea of a person who is doing so. Right effort arises with panna (wisdom) and with detachment - it is not just a matter of bringing attention to an object.

[RobertK]

After the Dhamma talk we returned to the Onra hotel where Sujin and many Thai people were staying.
Around 5 pm my daughter was looking out at the street from our 12th floor room and saw a violent argument. We called the hotel reception to notify the police.
A drug addict (as we found out in the news report the next day) was confronted by a police officer and the man stabbed the officer several times and then took the officer’s pistol and started walking up and down street firing off occasional shots.
We recorded video on phone in case it was needed but eventually a police swat team came and shot the perpetrator. The policeman was also deceased.
My children had questions about kamma and result and made it an opportunity to learn more about Dhamma. My 5 year old commented that the policeman had already being reborn and that the body was now only a body.
She was much interested in also what would happen to the killer.
I explained that beings depend on kamma and he would be reborn according to that. I said we can’t say for sure that he would go to a bad destination as perhaps he had done much good at other times and one of those kammas could condition the next birth.

In the lobby of the hotel that evening several Cambodian people came to meet Sujin for a discussion in English which my family attended and we mentioned this event. She said to the children that even that is dhamma and can be understood. I have heard Sujin say that so many times, in different situations, pleasant or unpleasant. And this is the way of Dhamma - there are only moments -the different jati (There are four jatis: akusala, kusala, vipaka, kiriya) all conditioned. When they arise they can be understood.

The discussion carried on with questions about the development of satipatthana. Someone wanted to know how to have satipatthana . It reminded me of when I was relatively new to Buddhism - the desire for results can be very strong and that merely hinders understanding.
The way to develop has to start at the beginning - by learning and considering the teachings - no technique that can short cut this.

Dispeller of Delusion. Section on Satipatthana

1310. |276| Furthermore, seven things lead to the arising of the
      investigation-o£-states enlightenment factor: (1) asking questions,
      (2) the act of cleansing the basis, (3) imparting of evenness to the
      five faculties, (4) avoidance of persons of no understanding, (5)
      1311.cultivation of persons of understanding, (6) reviewing the field for
      the exercise of profound knowledge, (7) being resolved thereon.
1311. Herein, (1) “asking questions” is repeated questioning about
      the meaning of the aggregates, elements, bases, faculties, powers,
      enlightenment factors, path factors, jhäna factors, tranquillity and insight.

Another said she wanted to have less aversion and this is a common question. However it is not really the right attitude if we want to develop satipatthana only to have a more peaceful life. The aim is to learn what life really is and so to gradually eliminate the wrong view of self. Everyone knows when irritation or anger is present, but this sort of awareness is not satipatthana - it is merely sanna, and with the idea that “I am angry”. When there is real understanding anger is known as merely a conditioned dhamma, it is not my anger. Thus it can be an object for satipatthana.

An issue that newcomers to Dhamma sometimes have is reconciling the truth about anatta that is a key teaching of the Buddha with the suttas that stress viriya - effort or energy. Because we make efforts in our usual endeavours it is natural to think it is similar efforts that will secure Dhammic success. But the viriya of the eightfold path arises with alobha, non-attachment. And all viriya, right or wrong is only a conditioned element.
Thein Nyun explains in the forward to Dhatukatha ( of the Abhidhamma) of Pali Text Society, the “Discourse on Elements, ”

But because the functions of the energies give rise to the concepts of continuity, collection and form the ideas arise of
(1) the initial effort that has to be exerted when a deed is about to be performed and
(2) the care that has to be taken while the deed is being performed to its completion. And this leads to the subsequent ideas (3) “I can perform”
and (4) “I can feel”, …
Thus these four imaginary characteristic functions of being have bought about a deep-rooted belief in their existence. But the elements have not the time or span of duration to carry out such function.

Understanding the details about conditions helps us to understand the momentary nature of viriya and assist in lessening the long held conviction in a self, a manager who is performing actions.

Sujin stresses the importance of careful consideration of the Dhamma and that this should go along with awareness of what is arising at the six doors now.
So her explanations are much more than theoretical; she shows the practical application of the Dhamma in daily life. She encourages everyone to understand the Dhamma now, recognizing that each experience, whether seeing, hearing, or thinking, is an opportunity to understand the true nature of reality and reduce attachment to the wrong view of self.​​

Then again she also stresses that there is no self who can make sati arise. Sati is anatta.

This seeming conundrum is the way things are. There is no technique that we can do to make sati arise and no one can tell us exactly how to have sati. But if the understanding of the Dhamma is gradually growing at times understanding and sati can arise.
One of my turning points was gradually learning that because sanna (saññā ) and vinnana (viññana) know the object and some of its characteristics it is easy to mistake simple awareness - the type without satisampajanna - for something more. Hence it is critical to learn what satisampajanna is as it arises.

The discussion carried on and I suggested to Sujin that it was getting late and we should finish as there would be long sessions at the hall the next days… She said she was happy to continue and so it went on. It is inspiring to observe how a life of Dhamma means she is always ready to help. It seems to my coarse level of comprehension that her expression of Dhamma is even clearer than it was several decades ago.

Perhaps we wish we could be like this when we are Sujin’s age ( or now). Or we feel we are not doing enough, not really striving in the manner suggested by the texts. But there is no point in comparing. In the Dhammadina sutta 500 merchants came to see the Buddha.

“>

May the Buddha please advise and instruct us. It will be for our lasting welfare and happiness
“So, Dhammadinna, you should train like this: ‘From time to time we will undertake and dwell upon the discourses spoken by the Realized One that are deep, profound, transcendent, dealing with emptiness.’ That’s how you should train yourselves.”

“Sir, we live at home with our children, using sandalwood imported from Kāsi, wearing garlands, perfumes, and makeup, and accepting gold and money. It’s not easy for us to undertake and dwell from time to time upon the discourses spoken by the Realized One that are deep, profound, transcendent, dealing with emptiness.

As with these merchants I am usually distracted and immersed in the five strands of sense pleasures. However, there are opportunities to learn in my own circumstances. And in reality there are only different moments, some kusala, some akusala, some indeterminate: learning to see this there can be a breaking down of even ideas about “my circumstances”.

It is fortunate that we are still able to study and consider the Dhamma. Even some of those who met the Buddha couldn’t do this. In the Dhammapada Commentary (verse 251) it talks about five men who came to listen to the Buddha. And as he taught the Dhamma only one listened attentively. The others were distracted: one fell asleep as he sat, another drew lines on the ground, a third tried to shake a tree, and the fourth gazed at the sky.

Then again are we sometimes like the men. We have good intentions to do something but conditions are such that it is not carried out. No point in regretting this - much better to understand a little more about accumulations and other conditions.

[RobertK]

Next topic in the hall in Phnom Penh:
A. Sujin spoke about citta- how it is the chief in experiencing. Normally there is immediate interest in the object of citta, or the cetasikas which arise together with citta (such as dosa or lobha).
Thus citta although arising every moment is not known. However there needs to be understanding of the nature of citta otherwise its ephemeral nature won’t be seen.

Related to this on a zoom discussion in June 2024 Sujin answered a question by Sundara. Alan Weller (the publisher of Nina’s books) edited the reply and uploaded it as “How do we recognize the truth?”.
Here is an extract.
I paraphrase some of the quotes to remove repetition and improve readability.

Sujin: “No one can stop the arising of the element or the reality which is conditioned to arise and see and hear and think from birth to death”

[Robert: Vinnana, citta, never stops arising. It performs its function of experiencing an object and then falls away instantly to be replaced by a new citta with a new object.]

Sujin: “Everything arises by conditions, and then—gone.”

“At the moment of seeing, it cannot think. At the moment of thinking, it cannot see.”

“Reality is just moments—forming, vanishing, never returning.”

What we take as ‘I’ is gone instantly, all the time."

“If ‘I see,’ then where is ‘I’ when seeing is gone?”

“Understanding truth moment by moment loosens the grip of self.”

“What is ‘I’? It’s an illusion.”

“At the moment of seeing, no one is there at all, and yet it sees.”

"Seeing sees. Hearing hears. Thinking thinks. No one is making it happen."

Back to the hall:
A.Sujin : The Sammasambuddha said that everything that arises is anatta. But we must know what that means. [in the ultimate sense] there is nothing, no people, no tables, no chairs. Is that true?

We should not be careless with what the Buddha taught so we must listen carefully and we should take every opportunity to understand. If you understand then the truth of anatta will become clear.

If we merely think about citta or vedana (feeling) or kaya (body) or khandhas but don’t know what sati and wisdom, satisampajanna, really are then we still don’t know the truth of the sammasamBuddha.

If someone doesn’t know the teaching of the Buddha can they really respect him? So we show respect by learning the Dhamma. But just knowing the words is not enough, there must be understanding of sati (mindfulness) of what it really is. Step by step.

Trying [with desire] to know what sati is, what patipatti is, is not the right way. Dhamma is very subtle. Because sati and all dhammas are anatta. The present moment arises, there is no one making it happen.

This life is very short. So the time we when are coming to understand is very valuable.

Taking up Dhamma in the wrong way is useless. But Dhamma can be followed in the right way.

[RobertK]

In the last week of November we flew to Kathmandu to meet with Sujin and many Thai and Nepalese Buddhists. I have been to the city several times and it was much as I remembered - although the traffic had increased.
We stayed at the same hotel as the groups travelling with Sujin and met her in in her room where the children asked questions about kamma.
The next morning we all went to the university (Koteshwor Multiple Campus) where Sujin spoke in a hall and her talk was translated by a Nepalese bhikkhu. As usual she encouraged questions from the audience. At this talk it was a bit difficult to find someone to translate to English as the hall was packed and even seating was hard to find. So I later listened to to a recording and had a translation.

Sujin: No one in the world, not just this world, but any world, the world of heaven, the world of angels, the world of gods, no one is able to know themselves if they do not know the teaching of Lord Buddha.

The understanding of the Buddha that he attained over 2,500 years ago, is more than mere thinking and contemplating.
Does it still exist in this moment, in the present? We are sitting here. Does that knowledge still exist at this moment?

Sujin (question for audience):This is a very simple question. Does the Lord Buddha’s understanding still exist in this moment?

Robert: The audience had different answers but it seems Sujin was looking to point to the present moment. It remined me of the sutta with Vakkali:
vakkali

For a long time, venerable sir, I have wanted to come to see the Blessed One, but I haven’t been fit enough to do so.”

“Enough, Vakkali! Why do you want to see this foul body? One who sees the Dhamma sees me; one who sees me sees the Dhamma. For in seeing the Dhamma, Vakkali, one sees me; and in seeing me, one sees the Dhamma.

Sujin: Actually right now, in this moment, we can develop the knowledge that the Buddha understood. We can understand it.
Whatever is heard, that is dhamma. Hearing is another dhamma, seeing is dhamma, whatever is seen is dhamma.

Some people in the audience asked about religion - what is good and what is bad religion. Apparently they had experiences with gurus who had been abusive.
Sujin brought the topic back to the moment now. To see that that whether now or at any time there are only different elements that arise and pass away.
It seemed that some people sitting near me had not heard Abhidhamma before and they were not expecting to hear about objects like seeing or colour, sound or hearing. It perhaps wasn’t what they thought Buddhism was.

We too may be bored at times with such mundane objects: why not work on attaining jhana instead. That may seem more productive as samatha bhavana, if truly developed, directly suppresses the defilements. There is a level of calmness that is super normal.

But seeing, hearing, thinking are taken as “my” seeing and hearing and thinking. They should gradually he understood as mere phenomena that arise due to conditions.
Without understanding
Saṁyutta Nikāya
Connected Discourses on the Six Sense Bases
35.27. Full Understanding (2)

“Bhikkhus, without directly knowing and fully understanding the all, without developing dispassion towards it and abandoning it, one is incapable of destroying suffering.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the all…?

“The eye and forms and eye-consciousness and things to be cognized by eye-consciousness. The ear and sounds and ear-consciousness and things to be cognized by ear-consciousness…. The mind and mental phenomena and mind-consciousness and things to be cognized by mind-consciousness.

“This, bhikkhus, is the all without directly knowing and fully understanding which, without developing dispassion towards which and abandoning which, one is incapable of destroying suffering.

“But, bhikkhus, by directly knowing and fully understanding the all, by developing dispassion towards it and abandoning it, one is capable of destroying suffering.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the all…? as above

“This, bhikkhus, is the all by directly knowing and fully understanding which, by developing dispassion towards which and abandoning which, one is capable of destroying suffering.”

Why the present moment?
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak … .nana.html

MN131 Let one not trace back the past
Or yearn for the future-yet-to-come.
That which is past is left behind
Unattained is the “yet-to-come.”
But that which is present he discerns —
With insight as and when it comes

The present is what needs to be discerned to get to the basics of what the links of Paticcasamuppada really are.
Without the Buddha’s teaching we live in a world of concepts, unaware of the actual phenomena that are behind the veil. It is by learning the teaching and seeing that the concepts we have of self and things that last is quite wrong, and that each moment arises by conditions and then falls away is what the world actually is. It is all crumbling.
The Abhidhamma and Commentaries are no different from the suttas in showing this - and they put a hard stamp on conditionality and the momentariness.

It is of course easy to go wrong - we might think we can manufacture this knowledge of the present moment.

The sutta continues:

And how is one drawn into present things? Herein, monks, an uninstructed ordinary man who takes no account of the Noble Ones, is unskilled in the Dhamma of the Noble Ones, untrained in the Dhamma of the Noble Ones, taking no account of the good men, unskilled in the Dhamma of the good men, untrained in the Dhamma of the good men, looks upon form as self, or self as possessed of form, or form as in self, or self as in form. He looks upon feeling as self, or self as possessed of feeling, or feeling as in self, or self as in feeling. He looks upon perception as self, or self as possessed of perception, or perception as in self, or self as in perception. He looks upon formations as self, or self as possessed of formations, or formations as in self, or self as in formations. He looks upon consciousness as self, or self as possessed of consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness. That is how, monks, one is drawn into present things.

We might think “ok I will discern the present moment” and try to observe it. But that is likely to be a subtle belief that formations (such as sati) are under control and can be directed by a manager (self).

[RobertK]

The next morning Sujin and Thai groups flew to Lumbini. My family went to a tourist area in Thamel and found a guide to take us hiking. So early the next day we took a Landrover to Nagarkot and enjoyed a day hike - with views of the snow covered Himalayas. While walking and looking I was thinking over the nature of the moment: the animals we saw, the various people, in reality just seeing, colour, seeing, thinking. The dog has seeing, and seeing is the same as for us, ‘seeing, cakkhu vinnana’. Thus only processes of mind and matter, whether human or animal, and so it is that Abhidhamma is exactly the way reality is. This can be known.

Later we flew to Lumbini and stayed at the hotel where the Thai group were. The hotel had a large hall and we could walk from our room to the place where the discussions were held.
In between discussion we visited the site at Lumbini where the Bodhisatta took his final birth and many other Buddhist sites.

In Lumbini I impressed upon my family how rare a Buddha is and that we should take advantage of this time where we are still able to study and understand the Dhamma.
But any study, any striving is only really worthwhile when it without lobha. If we are trying to get results then that shows attachment, and attachment cannot understand, it simply clings. We might have fear of future lives and want to be a sotapanna right now- but wishing is not the condition for insight.
MajjhimaNikaya 141

And what, friends, is ‘not to obtain what one wants is suffering’? To beings subject to birth there comes the wish: ‘Oh, that we were not subject to birth! That birth would not come to us!’ But this is not to be obtained by wishing, and not to obtain what one wants is suffering. To beings subject to ageing… subject to sickness… subject to death… subject to sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair, there comes the wish: ‘Oh, that we were not subject to sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair! That sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair would not come to us!’ But this is not to be obtained by wishing, and not to obtain what one wants is suffering.

Only the right conditions can give the right results and by studying the Dhamma wisely are right conditions developing.
Dhamma is subtle and it is different from worldly matters.

Ogha Sutta

• Saṁyutta Nikāya
• Connected Discourses with Devatas

1.1. Crossing the Flood

Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Savatthi in Jeta’s Grove, Anathapiṇḍika’s Park. Then, when the night had advanced, a certain devatā of stunning beauty, illuminating the entire Jeta’s Grove, approached the Blessed One. Having approached, he paid homage to the Blessed One, stood to one side, and said to him:

“How, dear sir, did you cross the flood?”

“By not halting, friend, and by not straining I crossed the flood.”

“But how is it, dear sir, that by not halting and by not straining you crossed the flood?”

“When I came to a standstill, friend, then I sank; but when I struggled, then I got swept away. It is in this way, friend, that by not halting and by not straining I crossed the flood.”

[RobertK]

We met with Sujin one evening in Lumbini with several people.
One of the questions was about the nature of vipassana nanas.
Sujin explained that without enough understanding based on study/listening/considering the Dhamma no vipassana can arise. She encouraged us to understand the present moment - whatever is appearing. But that there is no self who can make sati arise.

When the Buddha was teaching Abhidhamma in the deva world to his mother and the myriad devas the Commentary to Lomasakaṅgiyabhaddekaratta sutta notes he interspersed the Abhidhamma with the Bhaddekaratta Sutta to induce samvega and guidance on mindfulness and insight for both devas and beings in the human realm.

.Let not a person revive the past
Or on the future build his hopes;
For the past has been left behind
And the future has not been reached.
Instead with insight let him see
Each presently arisen state;
Let him know that and be sure of it,
Invincibly, unshakeably.
Today the effort must be made;
Tomorrow Death may come, who knows?
No bargain with Mortality
Can keep him and his hordes away,
But one who dwells thus ardently,
Relentlessly, by day, by night -
It is he, the Peaceful Sage has said,
Who Has a single excellent night.

Thus we see that right from the beginning of teaching Abhidhamma the Buddha made it clear that it goes together with satipatthana.

Abhidhamma without any direct understanding is like memorizing lists and that is not a real refuge.

In his last talk the Buddha said to " dwell with yourselves as an island, with yourselves as a refuge, with no other refuge; with the Dhamma as an island, with the Dhamma as a refuge, with no other refuge."

And this is done by the development of satipatthana, by understanding the present moment: “with insight let him see each presently arisen state”.
Still the subtleness has to be understood - wrong effort can easily arise.

Sujin explained more about the vipassana-nanas. It may seem that seeing and hearing are arising at the same time but they are different worlds actually and arise one at a time.

There is seeing and visible object now but they are not distinguished. Mostly it is the visible object that is known - the sense door object covers the mind-door. But rupa is completely different from nama (mentality). Sujin explains that during true vipassana
nana it is like it is reversed. The mind-door becomes apparent and the distinction between nama and rupa is known clearly, vividly. That is different from intellectual understanding where we understand that mind and matter are distinct but it is not seen directly.

In reality the sense door process is exceedingly brief - and then there are so many mind door processes. Yet , for example, color, visible object ( rupayatana), seems to last . But in actuality it is a very brief flash - the world is dark almost all the time. It doesn’t seem this way because the sense door , as it were, covers the mind-door.

[RobertK]

In Lumbini I met again with Sopphana Rith, Alberto from Italy and other friends. One topic was how to know who is a sotapanna.
Actually all that can be known is if someone is explaining Dhamma correctly.

In the Milinda panha: (first section, giving the background of Nagasena, p. 21, 22) Horner’s translation.
Venerable Nagasena was still a puthujjana bhikkhu, but he had mastered the Abhidhamma.
He gave a talk to a laywoman and she attained - and he attained immediately after, while he reflected on the talk he had given.

Then the venerable Nagasena gave benedictive thanks
to that important woman lay-follower by means of a
profound talk on Abhidhamma that was supermundane
and connected with (the concept of) emptiness. Then as
that important woman lay-follower was sitting on that
very seat, Dhamma-vision, dustless and stainless, arose
to her: that whatever is of the nature to arise all that is
of the nature to stop.
And after he had given the benedictive thanks to that

important woman lay-follower and was reflecting on the**
** Dhamma he himself had taught (her), the venerable**
** Nagasena aroused insight and was established in the**
** fruit of stream-attainment** as he was sitting on that
very seat.
Then the venerable Assagutta who was sitting in a,
pavilion knew that these had both acquired Dhammavision,
and he burst forth into applause: “It is good, it
is good, Nagasena, that by one shot of an arrow two
great persons are pierced.”

Whoever attains does so by means of satipatthana leading to the stages of vipassana and onward to the experience of nibbana. Sariputta became a sotapanna during the time he listened to Assaji but he still went though each stage of vipassana.

The Way of Mindfulness: The Satipatthana Sutta and Its Commentary (accesstoinsight.org)
The Commentary:

The Blessed One pointed out the teaching thus: “Bhikkhus, my Dispensation leads to Deliverance in this way,” closed the instruction that is crowned with arahantship in twenty-one places and uttered the following words: "This is the only way, o bhikkhus, for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow and lamentation, for the destruction of suffering and grief, for reaching the right path, for the attainment of Nibbana, namely the Four Arousings of Mindfulness.

The sutta:

[…]
"O bhikkhus, let alone half-a-month. Should any person maintain these Four Arousings of Mindfulness in this manner for a week, then by him one of two fruitions is proper to be expected: Knowledge here and now; or, if some form of clinging is yet present, the state of non-returning.

and the Commentary

But concerning the person of keen intelligence it was stated as follows: Instructed in the morning, he will attain in the evening; instructed in the evening, he will attain in the morning

We may hope that we can attain as quickly as possible but only by conditions can sati arise.
In the time of the Buddha those with enough accumulations of merit, developed over many lives, could listen and penetrate the actual characteristics of nama and rupa while listening.
We are not as wise as them but there can be a start in understanding the realities that are arising now.

Nina Van Gorkom, Dhamma in Cambodia.
People listened with understanding and they did not think of textbooks or different subjects written down in books. They heard about realities that were appearing, they could investigate and understand them immediately. Their study was based on listening and considering, they knew that what they heard concerned the reality appearing at that very moment.

The Anguttara Nikaya explains that there are 4 types of people:

Aṅguttara Nikāya 4.133
14. Persons
14. Puggalavagga

“Cattārome, bhikkhave, puggalā santo saṁvijjamānā lokasmiṁ.
Katame cattāro?
Ugghaṭitaññū, vipañcitaññū, neyyo, padaparamo—
Ime kho, bhikkhave, cattāro puggalā santo saṁvijjamānā lokasmin”t

Bodhi translation: Bhikkhus, there are these four kinds of persons found existing in the world. What four? One who understands quickly; one who understands through elaboration; one who needs to be guided; and one for whom the word is the maximum. These are the four kinds of persons found existing in the world.” 831”

note 831 Bodhi: the four alternatives are: ugghaṭitaññū, vipacitaññū (so Ce and Ee; Be vipañcitaññū), neyyo, padaparamo.

223:
(1) “The person of quick understanding is one for whom the breakthrough to the Dhamma (dhammābhisamaya) occurs together with an utterance. (Pp-a: Ugghaṭita means the opening up of knowledge (ñāṇugghāṭana); the meaning is that one knows as soon as knowledge opens up. Together with an utterance: as soon as [a statement on Dhamma] is uttered. The breakthrough occurs together with knowledge of the Dhamma of the four truths.)”

(2) “The person who understands through elaboration is one for whom the breakthrough to the Dhamma occurs when the meaning of what has been stated briefly is being analyzed in detail. (Pp-a: This is the person able to attain arahantship when, after a concise outline of the teaching has been set up, the meaning is being analyzed in detail.)”

(3) “The person to be guided is one for whom the breakthrough to the Dhamma occurs gradually, through instruction, questioning, careful attention, and reliance on good friends.”

(4) “One for whom the word is the maximum is one who—though hearing much, reciting much, retaining much in mind, and teaching much—does not reach the breakthrough to the Dhamma in that life.

In these days there are only the last two, the Neyya and the Padaparamo.
The padaparama cannot attain in this life but he can acquire merit and understanding leading to attainment in a future life.

On one evening Sopphana Rith and me had a discussion with a small group of young Nepalese men who were helping with the arrangements for A. Sujin’s talks. One question was how they could be sure that the Buddha’s teaching was true.

If at times we should doubt the Triple Gem that is the way things are at that moment: doubt can be object for awareness.
Even followers in the time of the Buddha could lose faith at times.

Once 500 disciples of other faiths were friendly with Anathapindika and he took them to see the Buddha
They were taught by the Buddha (taken from Jataka Commentary to Apannaka jataka) and gained confidence:

They, after hearing the Master’s discourse, rose up with hearts converted, and with due salutation to the Lord of Knowledge, burst asunder the other doctrines in which they had taken refuge, and betook themselves to the Buddha as their refuge. Thenceforth without ceasing they used to go with Anatha-pindika, carrying in their hands perfumes and garlands and the like, to hear the Truth in the Monastery; and they abounded in charity, kept the Commandments, and kept the weekly fast-day. — Jataka Tales: Complete Collection of Buddhist Folklore (From Bodhi Path Press) by Bodhi Path Press

However, the Buddha left Savatthi and after a time they lost faith:

Now the Blessed One went from Savatthi back to Rajagaha again. As soon as the Buddha had gone, they burst asunder their new faith, and returning to the other doctrines as their refuge, reverted to their original state.

Nevertheless the Buddha returned to Savatthi after several months and again taught the vacillating 500;

Thus did the Blessed One teach this lesson respecting Truth. And he went on to say: "What is called walking by truth, not only bestows the three happy endowments, the six heavens of the realms of sense, and the endowments of the higher Realm of Brahma, but finally is the giver of Arahatship ; whilst what is called walking by untruth entails re-birth in the four states of punishment or in the lowest castes of mankind.” Further, the Master went on to expound in sixteen ways the Four Truths, at the close of which all those five hundred disciples were established in the Fruit of the First Path