Can trans people ordain?

Sila - morality
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I am not familiar with LGBT+ things in general, but what I see some similarities is for male to female transition, it seems close to being an enouch, but some said that it’s not the genetialia got cut off, but transformed into a female one via surgery.

The notion of spontaneous sex transition is obviously no issue for one who’s already a monastic from the rule in pārājika 1

From dhammapada commentaries, there’s also a case of a man spontaneously become a woman, then became a man again then ordain.

In principle it doesn’t seem to be a problem, but possibly if the sex change is not spontaneous, but via surgery and hormonal treatment, it maybe?

Anything from commentary or sub or mula that prohibits trans from ordaining?

Even say if we have the enouch one to prevent male to female to ordain in Bhukkhuni saṅgha, (assume they exist for the sake of discussion), what rule is there to prevent female to male from ordaining in the Bhukkhu saṅgha?

We can have 2 cases of before operation and after operation.

As well as if the trans got treatment when they were a child, before puberty, basically it’s not easy to tell apart female to male trans from born male. If they don’t tell us, we just assume that they are male, and we ordain them, is that ordination valid?

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One needs to be a biological male in order to ordain as a Theravāda bhikkhu. It is very clear and operations don’t count and are not really biological males.
As for “modern day western bhikkhunis 2.0”. They do whatever they feel like doing and they make things up as they go along.

You should really read up on Bhikkhuni Saṅghadisesa.
Furthermore, Ajahn Sujato’s Bhikkhuni Vinaya Studies book on the subject seems to be intentionally misleading and confusing to sift through. For instance, Ajhan Sujato implies that most monks break Saṅghadisesa #6 so it sends a presidence to breaking rules monks feel they don’t need to follow because they feel they are too restrictive. In reality, the “restrictive” size of the kuti is only if one begs for his own materials for a private kuti. This condition to limit the size rarely ever happens. I’m quite sure he knows that. :grinning:
The 2nd way that it is made confusing is the EBT dumping of the rules. It is difficult to sift through. However, the rules are pretty much all the same across 6 or 7 different versions.

You will see that bhikkhunis are not allowed to sleep alone or travel alone. If they break it, they need to do 2 weeks of saṅghameetings.

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