Buddhist Analysis and Science

Its become quite common to see Buddhists trying to justify Buddhist teachings according to modern science. You will hear for example that the 4 elements represent the forces of physics, or represent the different phases of matter (solid, liquid, gas, plasma etc). I think though this is a mistake. I think firstly its a mistake because science works on the basis of constantly changing and updating its theories. What is considered to be “true” today will turn out to be false tomorrow, or not quite as it is and modified. From a Buddhist perspective, and particularly from a CT point of view, The Dhamma isn’t like this. The Dhamma isn’t a hypothesis, or a theory supported by evidence. Its a fundamental law which is known to be certain via the knowledge of a fully awakened Buddha. Its not open to being modified based on new data, or ditched entirely if a better theory comes along. Its rather how things really are. Furthermore, if we take the Buddhist analysis of matter, we see that when Buddhism (and once again, particularly CT) speaks of matter they don’t have in mind what modern science does when it talks of matter and the like. In modern science matter is a substance (atoms, chemicals, forces etc). These substances posses characteristics, and persist through time undergoing changes and modifications but never losing what they are throughout time. In CT however rūpa isn’t like that. The rūpa-kalāpas are momentary, they are empty of substance due to their impermanence and so they do not persist through time undergoing changes and modifications. They also don’t possess characteristics, since they are the characteristics. The earth element, for example, has no shape or dimensions and is insubstantial. Ledi Sayadaw talks about this here:

The earth element (paṭhavī-dhātu), in the ultimate sense, is the
mere property of hardness. By earth is not meant any substance—
not even a hundred-thousandth part of an atom. It lacks shape,
mass, form, core, or solidity. Therefore, this element exists in very
clear spring water or river water; in all forms of light, including
sunlight, moonlight, and even the lustre of gems; in all sounds,
including the vibrant sounds of gongs or pagoda bells; in moving
air, from the softest breeze to a gale ; and in smells, good or bad,
that spread near and far…If you want to contemplate the earth element as an ultimate reality in Mount Meru or in this great earth, you concentrate only
on the property of hardness, which lacks substance. As you
concentrate only on its function (giving support to all forms of
materiality,) it will be seen as a reflection in a mirror on the surface
of clear water, without the obstruction of the tiniest substance, not
even an atom.

If there remains the faintest idea of substance or form or solid
mass, even as much as an atom, your view is not on the ultimate truth
of earth. It is not free from the conventionally accepted concept of
form. This conventional truth stands in the way of understanding the
true characteristics—arising and vanishing—of materiality

01VD-Main.book (bps.lk)

As we can see this is nothing like the scientific conception of matter. Its a totally different anaylsis. Buddhists then are falling into a trap, IMO, when they appeal to science both in the sense of making the Dhamma into another theory and in the sense of not understanding how its analysis is different to the scientific one. It doesn’t need to be justified by science at all.

As has been explained in connection with the earth element, here, too, when one clearly comprehends cohesion as the ultimate truth of the water element, one will realize that no substance, solidity, mass, or form truly exists, even in Mount Meru or in the Great Earth; and that, apart from the cohesion that characterizes all materiality, one’s concepts about shape or form or colour, of clouds, the sun, the moon, or trees, for example, are as insubstantial and illusive as the reflected images of shapes and colours in a mirror or on the surface of clear water. When such clear comprehension of cohesion is gained in respect of Mount Meru or the Great Earth, there will be no difficulty in realizing this fact in living beings as well, be they men, devas, or brahmās. In fact, what is necessary is comprehending this element in living beings. We begin with Mount Meru and the Great Earth simply to emphasize the falsity or deception in concept, form, shape, and colour in the greatest masses of material phenomena, so that it will be more readily seen in respect to lesser materiality, such as living beings

Ledi Sayadaw

01VD-Main.book (bps.lk)

3 Likes

it is interesting that many people ignore of forget what are the Science foundaments on the nature Reality:

-Matter is something with a Mass
-Mass is the quantity of Matter
-Energy is the work of Matter

Science is rooted in a loop. It is a shared frame to work in where nobody knows the root, although precisely this ignorance becomes useful to produce more knowledge of the grasped Reality

Sometimes using a comparative with Science is useful because this is a cultural issue, and quite people can understand better a Dhamma issue with a comparative using Science.

However, it happens because there is a materialist mind-programming from our childhood. We grow believing the Reality is a solid thing, with its foundaments already explained. And to start to digest that the Reality is delusion it is not easy for many people.

Also in our culture there is quite people who don’t wish to leave their mind-programming. However, when they realize that something is missing in their heart or in their human nature, then they feel curiosity for the Dhamma as a tool to repair some unknown spiritual malfunction. Although they try to do that without intention to leave their own pre-conceived ideas and that mind-programming for a delusion of Reality.

Maybe that people only are doing a first contact with Dhamma in this present rebirth. And in some next rebirth they will deepen in the Dhamma teaching. Who knows.

2 Likes

There is another sense Science, since it assumes substances, always operates at the level of conventional reality. As such using science to justify CT teachings won’t work, since CT teaches actual reality. Science operates in a world that ultimately doesn’t exist, and so dhammic principles can’t be justified by it.

2 Likes

:slight_smile: :pray:

2 Likes

I agree in all. That’s the final issue.

1 Like

Science is a form of knowledge and so is Buddhadhamma they are different fields and methods.

i don’t mix them up but I use both for the purpose of living happily in this world. I have benefitted immensely from them both. Likely more so from Buddhadhamma but I still love science and its methods and the way it has developed overtime.

I have studied various schools of Buddhist practice and with varying teachers and I have learnt from them all. I also don’t mix them all up and kept them separately in my Mind.

Science though is very vast and wondrous. That we can use maths, science and physics and chemistry to discern things that are billions of miles away in space is wondrous. Is a telescope not a wondrous exension for our mind?

Medical Science has saved my life several times . I have also used it to save others from suffering and illness.

Science also shows us what we cannot know with our minds. It discerns the chemistry of the human body which no amount of meditation has ever been able to do. It is also a form of knowledge that is independent and has evolved by the efforts of great, smart men and woman to show us things that no human has seen before. It is cumulative knowledge.

The Buddhamma has a different scope and purpose. It teaches us something else how to be better humans. Gives us a foundation to live our life with meaning. It is also a Science in the sense of it is an investigation of the rules and laws of our actions of body, speech and mind. It is also an investigation of our consiousness and our beliefs and motivations. All knowledge is useful if we use it the right way and within its context.

I got into physics and Buddhism from an encouragement of a former Mahāyana nun, but also from the other comparisons I had seen which they do not respect the findings of science and try to shoehorn it into Buddhism or that they try to use science to prove Buddhism which becomes outdated.

Eg. Before Hawking’s radiation theory was discovered (still theory now), Black holes are taken as one way in and no way out. So I read someone compared attaining to Nibbāna, cessation like entering a black hole, no more coming back to saṃsāra. But then now we know (from theory) that black holes evaporate and will one day (super far into the future) disappear. So at least that validated that even black holes are impermanent. But such careless comparison hurts when science gets updated. So I hope not to fall into such traps. But then, the best I can work with is current physics, not future physics which is undiscovered yet.

1 Like

If you get a chance to. Please watch this documentary which demonstrates the power of Science and knowledge over dogma and the progression of knowledge. https://youtu.be/bXB8aLFePu8?si=htzn6QZqb1BtRoai

I think that the joining of Buddhism to Science is for someone tying together consciousness with light and chemistry… something like this… “Ok took a bus ride back to the Thai burmese border for a few days. As you get close to the the border you have to pass through this mountain range and it is a huge national park. As I was looking at the green trees my mind started thinking about the light from the sun being converted to the food energy I live off in the leafs of plants. Light from our big sun as the driving force of all life on earth. Then my mind starts to think about the amazing chemistry of life on earth. How did all this chemical complexity get here and how we have a capacity to barely comprehend what is really going on here and what we really are. Ultimately our whole life is converted sunlight. The sun should be considered our God for sure. We are truly created from it and all the water on earth and the chemistry needed to support life is likely formed in the suns furnace. It is like the Earth is a fertile Seed produced in the sun and spat out to the correct orbit. And then is our consciousness ultimately just converted sunlight? Such are my dreamy contemplations riding a bus through a sea of green.”