As one of the sutta includes the all as the 6 sense contacts/bases/consciousness, we should be able to include Bhavaṅga in the mind contact, and the active cognitive process where there’s aversion to mind door is not the full range of the mind contact right? In every moment there’s basically mind consciousness except for those parts which senses the 5 physical senses are called their respective consciousness.
Just to add on, someone pointed out to me that AN11.7 as quoted below means that the perception of nibbāna is outside of the 6 sense contacts due to the bolded words.
“Could it be, reverend Sāriputta, that a mendicant might gain a state of immersion like this? They wouldn’t perceive earth in earth … And they wouldn’t perceive what is seen, heard, thought, known, attained, sought, or explored by the mind. And yet they would still perceive.”
“Siyā nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, bhikkhuno tathārūpo samādhipaṭilābho yathā neva pathaviyaṁ pathavisaññī assa …pe… yampidaṁ diṭṭhaṁ sutaṁ mutaṁ viññātaṁ pattaṁ pariyesitaṁ anuvicaritaṁ manasā, tatrāpi na saññī assa, saññī pana assā”ti.
I already pointed out that this is the fruition attainment of the arahant, whereby there’s the lokutarra citta of the arahant which is still mind base, consciousness aggregate, conditioned. But of course, those who posit something after parinibbāna would still insist on identifying this nibbāna with remainder to be the same as nibbāna without remainder.
Anyway to explain why there are the bolded words in the sutta?
Usually we perceive a thing, with perception, and consciousness we use the verb know. Or maybe cognize, which is same as know basically. And perception, consciousness all comes together. Usually consciousness is more basic knowing, like if you don’t know Chinese, this word 无 is only known to you as lines in a certain shape. But to me, I have an added perception of meaning nothing/without. The perception of mere lines doesn’t arise in me. But both of us know the basic word as the same.
Agreed, just that someone with wrong view tried to use these bolded things to say that this perception of nibbāna is beyond the 6 sense consciousness and thus after the 5 aggregates ceases, still is the same. So hard to debate with those people.
No. I was just requested not to link or mention this forum way back from the B. Bodhi post. I commonly just fall back to the Abhidhamma/commentary knowledge that I have whenever the suttas alone doesn’t have enough knowledge for me to argue for the right view side.
They already are ok to give voice to so many people with wrong views, and it seems that a lot of the venerables there might not want to get themselves into endless debates. I am quite tired myself as well. So there’s no reason to block the perspective of classical theravada. Actually, the mods do appreciate me helping, but also am concerned for me not to overtax myself in replying too much.