Bhavaṅga is classified under mind consciousness?

As one of the sutta includes the all as the 6 sense contacts/bases/consciousness, we should be able to include Bhavaṅga in the mind contact, and the active cognitive process where there’s aversion to mind door is not the full range of the mind contact right? In every moment there’s basically mind consciousness except for those parts which senses the 5 physical senses are called their respective consciousness.

Question as in the title.

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Yes bhavanga citta is classified as manāyatana.

So there are sense door processes and mind door processes and bhavanga cittas between these.

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Just to add on, someone pointed out to me that AN11.7 as quoted below means that the perception of nibbāna is outside of the 6 sense contacts due to the bolded words.

“Could it be, reverend Sāriputta, that a mendicant might gain a state of immersion like this? They wouldn’t perceive earth in earth … And they wouldn’t perceive what is seen, heard, thought, known, attained, sought, or explored by the mind. And yet they would still perceive.”
“Siyā nu kho, āvuso sāriputta, bhikkhuno tathārūpo samādhipaṭilābho yathā neva pathaviyaṁ pathavisaññī assa …pe… yampidaṁ diṭṭhaṁ sutaṁ mutaṁ viññātaṁ pattaṁ pariyesitaṁ anuvicaritaṁ manasā, tatrāpi na saññī assa, saññī pana assā”ti.

I already pointed out that this is the fruition attainment of the arahant, whereby there’s the lokutarra citta of the arahant which is still mind base, consciousness aggregate, conditioned. But of course, those who posit something after parinibbāna would still insist on identifying this nibbāna with remainder to be the same as nibbāna without remainder.

Anyway to explain why there are the bolded words in the sutta?

It is taking nibbana as object, that is why. :slight_smile:

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It would be a bit puzzling for nibbāna is not known, but perceived.

Sorry what is the puzzle?

Usually we perceive a thing, with perception, and consciousness we use the verb know. Or maybe cognize, which is same as know basically. And perception, consciousness all comes together. Usually consciousness is more basic knowing, like if you don’t know Chinese, this word 无 is only known to you as lines in a certain shape. But to me, I have an added perception of meaning nothing/without. The perception of mere lines doesn’t arise in me. But both of us know the basic word as the same.

Do you mean you would expect the sutta to use an inflection of vinnana, rather than of sanna?

Whenever there is sanna there is also citta ( vinnana) so it doesn’t really matter I think.

Agreed, just that someone with wrong view tried to use these bolded things to say that this perception of nibbāna is beyond the 6 sense consciousness and thus after the 5 aggregates ceases, still is the same. So hard to debate with those people.

Indeed. In the end even the Buddha could only help those who had accumulated the supporting conditions over so many lives. :pray:

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I did a search and found the thread I think you mean.

I think it is good you persevere. Even though your points are not taken on board, there may be someone who reads it and gets something.

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