Analysis of kalpas

General Theravada topics
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There are 3 types of kalpas. A kalpa (aeon) is a measurement of time. It
is an unthinkable amount of time. The 3 types are shown below.

  1. Amid kalpas. (The period of earth’s human beings life span starting
    from 10 years and growing up to 10¹⁴³ years and again going back to 10
    years is called an amid kalpa. This is an unimaginable large time. Not a
    small time. When earth’s human life span became 10 years as
    maximum, there becomes a great destruction on an earth and survives
    an extremely few humans. From the survivors, new human
    generations are created.)
  2. Long kalpas. (20 amid kalpas are equal to a long kalpa.)
  3. Great kalpas. (80 amid kalpas are equal to a great kalpa.)

There are 4 kinds of long kalpas. This categorization is according to the
destruction, emptiness, creation and existence of galaxies in an area in
the universe.

  1. Either by fire element or by water element or by air element an
    entire area of the universe is destroyed after a very long time. The
    destruction happens slowly taking one long kalpa. This is one long
    kalpa. (the long aeon of destruction)
  2. After the full destruction of the universe’s that area; it stays
    completely empty for a very long time. This period is equal to the
    above period. This is one long kalpa. (the long aeon of emptiness)
  3. After that, in that empty space; bit by bit worlds are formed by 4
    elements. This natural process also takes a very long time. This period
    is equal to the above period. This is one long kalpa. (the long aeon of
    creation)
  4. When the worlds were completely created by 4 elements, it takes a
    very long time to the full destruction of that worlds again. This
    existence period is equal to the above period. The galaxies exist one
    long kalpa. This is one long kalpa. (the long aeon of existence)

This is about gross planes. Finer Brahma planes do not become subjects of frequent destructions. However, they too are impermanent.

3 destructions of an earth:
When the human life span on an earth came to a maximum of 10 years;
there becomes a great destruction of society that makes many dead
bodies. Only a very few humans survive from that destruction. New
human generations become from them.

  1. Due to a war by weapons; the society is completely destroyed.
    (Happens when the hatred of society becomes high. Due to extreme
    hatred; many who die by weapons is born in hell worlds.)
  2. Due to a dangerous virus; the society is completely destroyed.
    (Happens when the ignorance and wrong views of society becomes
    high. Many who die by this kind of destruction be born in good worlds
    due to kindness to each others.)
  3. Due to a great famine; the society is completely destroyed.
    (Happens when the greed of society becomes high. Many die by
    hunger. Many who die by this destruction is born as ghosts due to the
    love for foods.)

The cause for lowering life span and great destruction of human
society is due to doing sins by many people by body, mouth and mind.
Life span grows when they again behave in meritorious actions and in
righteousness.
This time, spreading the hatred, the great destruction of current
society (on this earth) happens by weapons.

4 types of human worlds:
There are 4 types of human worlds.

  1. The earth world. (This is the world we currently live in. Life span is
    uncertain. Sometimes humans of this world have 10 years as the
    minimum life span. Sometimes life span grows up to 10¹⁴³ years. The
    life span of humans of this world depends upon their virtuousness.)
  2. Eastern Videha world. (Life span is 700 years. When the sun
    appears above the eastern horizon for the earth world, then the sun is
    at meridian for this world. The distance between the earth and this
    world is about 96,000 kilometres.)
  3. Northern Dwarfish world. (Life span is 1000 years. When the sun
    appears above the eastern horizon for the earth world, then the sun is
    setting for this world. It is their evening. The distance between the
    earth and this world is about 96,000 kilometres.)
  4. Western Goyana world. (Life span is 500 years. When the sun
    appears above the eastern horizon for the earth world, it is midnight in
    this human world. The distance between the earth and this world is
    about 96,000 kilometres.)

God worlds:
Gods live not only in these 6 heaven words. Gods also live in various
places including on the sphere of the earth. But the gods who live in
the 6 heaven worlds are more powerful than all other gods. According
to the plane; the fineness of the body changes. So a god who is in a
lower plane cannot see other gods who have finer bodies than them.

  1. Nearest heaven world to the earth which is ruled by 4 god-kings is
    located far away approximately from 504,000 kilometres. The life span
    is 9,000,000 human years – 500 divine years.
  2. The heaven world Thawathinsa is located approximately 1,008,000
    kilometres far away distance from an earth. The life span is 36,000,000
    human years – 2,000 divine years.
  3. The heaven world Yamaya is located approximately 1,512,000
    kilometres far away from an earth. The life span is 144,000,000 human
    years – 8,000 divine years.
  4. The heaven world Thusithaya is located approximately 2,016,000
    kilometres far away from an earth. The life span is 576,000,000 human
    years – 32,000 divine years.
  5. The heaven world Nimmanarathi is located approximately
    2,520,000 kilometres far away from an earth. The life span is
    2,304,000,000 human years – 128,000 divine years.
  6. The heaven world Paranimmitha Wasawaththi is located
    approximately 3,024,000 kilometres far away from an earth. The life
    span is 9,216,000,000 human years – 512,000 divine years.

From this Paranimmitha Wasawaththi heaven world, the nearest
Brahma world is located at a distance of approximately 66,096,000
kilometres away. A powerful god who has supernatural powers can
move around 10,000 galaxies in the universe as maximum. A Brahma
can do more. But they too have a limit.
The earth element is high in human beings. The fire element is high in
celestial beings. Therefore their bodies blazes. (Emit light)

(This information is from the Practical Meditation Guide By A Forest Monk book.)

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I doubt that human lifespan can grow so long. In the Digha Nikya the maximum life span mentioned is 80,000 years.

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The Buddhist cosmology can be a fascinating topic. Knowing the sheer duration of the various kappas and cycles can make one understand how Buddhism is all about gradual achievement.

However, I think some information in the book shared is not the same as I understand the texts.

The term “destruction of an earth” doesn’t seem to be used in the right context. The cakkavattisutta, the one talking about moral decay, doesn’t talk about “3 destructions of an earth”, but rather about how moral decay causes decreased human life span, etc. A societal collapse related to the 3 unwholesome roots (tīṇi akusalamūlāni), not a “destruction of an earth”.

Here’s a link to the sutta: SuttaCentral, where you’ll find that the moral decay chain goes like:
poverty 🡒 theft 🡒 swords 🡒 killing

Which gradually leads to halving of the human life span of 80k 🡒 40k 🡒 20k 🡒 … 10 years.

Also the book says:

many who die by weapons is born in hell worlds

I cannot speculate what causes one to “die by weapons” as only Buddhas completely understand kamma/vipāka. But as I understand the Dhamma I doubt that just being killed by weapon qualifies one to be born in the hell realms. I guess the author meant the killer rather than the victim. However such imprecise language could lead to wrong view.

And yes, as RobertK mentioned, the maximum human lifespan according to the cakkavattisutta is 80,000 years. The number 10¹⁴³ is usually related to the term asaṅkheyya, a period of an “incalculable” duration, mostly used in relation to how long it took the Buddha to become enlightened.

As for the actual destruction of Earth — it is discussed in the sattasūriyasutta which says the Earth would be destroyed by natural forces - water/wind/fire.

As for the book, it seems the author has an intention to share his knowledge which should be truly appreciated. A lot of the information comes from the texts. However, some of the information doesn’t align with the Dhamma as I understand it in the context of classical Theravada. Also, often the terminology and translations used in English are not standard. Here are a few quotes from the website and/or the book:

  • Kindly help us save many unfortunate people who are either attacked by black magic or have uncontrollable lust for watching porn and masturbating or who do not know any real meditation…
  • THE WISDOMOF THIS BOOK IS FOR ANYONE WHO HAS THE COURAGE TO ABANDON ALL WORLDLY PLEASURES AND MOVE ON THE PATH OF ABANDONING ALL SINS
  • Also known as The book of God’s Eye and The book of Divine Eye
  • Note: Due to various problems that came from the organization of Buddhist monks, the forest monk has now stepped out from the organization of Buddhist monks and has become an independent rishi. while at the same time it also says “This book has been written by a real forest monk.”
  • Be addictive for meditation practicing.
  • Notice to the general public: The first 2 versions of this book contained some errors. We have now, with this Revised Standard Version, tried with our utmost attention to correct those errors.
  • My worship to the 7th Rishi, the Sage of Sages, the Supremely Enlightened One, the Reverend Omniscient One.
  • Remember, this is the age of Kali – the age of distortion.

This is just skimming through the first 10-20 pages.

In conclusion I want to say that in these modern times we should all be reminded of the wonderful Kalama Sutta.

:folded_hands:

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It refers to being killed while actively engaged in combat. Non-combatants who are killed by soldiers without resisting do not fall into this category.

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Yes. Thank you very much @sumbodhi for explaining this.

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Very good point :folded_hands:

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I think that’s only for the case mentioned in that sutta? i think i remember some of the Buddhas in the Buddhavamsa living at a time where the typical lifespan is 100,000 years

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Good point. :folded_hands:

There are human lifespan beyond what I mentioned apparently.

Buddha’s have to arise when lifespans are between 10 years and under 100,000. But the human lifespan may go up more.

Anyway certainly nowhere near the extreme number mentioned in the OP.

see this link:

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10^143 years is indeed an insanely large amount of time. a trillion is only 10^12

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The “humans” lived on light and were not as physical as we know them today. We can look at Aggañña Sutta.

Ajahn Sujato
Hoti kho so, vāseṭṭha, samayo yaṁ kadāci karahaci dīghassa addhuno accayena ayaṁ loko vivaṭṭati.
There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos expands.

Vivaṭṭamāne loke yebhuyyena sattā ābhassarakāyā cavitvā itthattaṁ āgacchanti.
As the cosmos expands, sentient beings mostly pass away from that host of radiant deities and come back to this realm.

Tedha honti manomayā pītibhakkhā sayaṁpabhā antalikkhacarā subhaṭṭhāyino ciraṁ dīghamaddhānaṁ tiṭṭhanti.
Here they are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, wandering in midair, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time.

2. The Earth’s Nectar Appears (Rasapathavipātubhāva)

Ekodakībhūtaṁ kho pana, vāseṭṭha, tena samayena hoti andhakāro andhakāratimisā.
But the single mass of water at that time was utterly dark.

Na candimasūriyā paññāyanti, na nakkhattāni tārakarūpāni paññāyanti, na rattindivā paññāyanti, na māsaḍḍhamāsā paññāyanti, na utusaṁvaccharā paññāyanti, na itthipumā paññāyanti, sattā sattātveva saṅkhyaṁ gacchanti.
The moon and sun were not found, nor were stars and constellations, day and night, months and fortnights, years and seasons, or male and female. Beings were simply known as ‘beings’.

Atha kho tesaṁ, vāseṭṭha, sattānaṁ kadāci karahaci dīghassa addhuno accayena rasapathavī udakasmiṁ samatani.
After a very long period had passed, the earth’s nectar curdled in the water.

Seyyathāpi nāma payaso tattassa nibbāyamānassa upari santānakaṁ hoti.
It appeared just like the curd on top of hot milk-rice as it cools.

Evameva pāturahosi.
In the same way it appeared.

Sā ahosi vaṇṇasampannā gandhasampannā rasasampannā, seyyathāpi nāma sampannaṁ vā sappi sampannaṁ vā navanītaṁ evaṁvaṇṇā ahosi.
It was beautiful, fragrant, and delicious, like ghee or butter.

Seyyathāpi nāma khuddamadhuṁ aneḷakaṁ.
And it was as sweet as pure dwarf-bee honey.

Evamassādā ahosi.
Thus it was enjoyable.

Atha kho, vāseṭṭha, aññataro satto lolajātiko.
Now, one of those beings was reckless.

‘ambho, kimevidaṁ bhavissatī’ti rasapathaviṁ aṅguliyā sāyi.
Thinking, “Oh my, what might this be?” they tasted the earth’s nectar with their finger.

Tassa rasapathaviṁ aṅguliyā sāyato acchādesi, taṇhā cassa okkami.
They enjoyed it, and craving was born in them.

Aññepi kho, vāseṭṭha, sattā tassa sattassa diṭṭhānugatiṁ āpajjamānā rasapathaviṁ aṅguliyā sāyiṁsu.
And other beings, following that being’s example, tasted the earth’s nectar with their fingers.

Tesaṁ rasapathaviṁ aṅguliyā sāyataṁ acchādesi, taṇhā ca tesaṁ okkami.
They too enjoyed it, and craving was born in them.

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There are texts that describe locations invisible to the human eye, such as groves, mountains and cities which are said to be inhabited by devas. Some texts also speak of great cities and civilizations that existed long before the appearance of the first modern hominids. These mythical civilizations, however, left no archaeological traces. Similar accounts can be found in many cultures around the world, not only in Buddhist texts.

A quick analysis of these apparently fantastic accounts might suggest that they are nothing more than mythological tales, with no correspondence to reality. But if the existence of these less-physical planes were a fact, and if they were once inhabited by human beings, this could provide an explanation for many of those mythological stories.

Could it be that the first human beings were less material, less physical than we are today, and lived in these invisible realms? If so, might this suggest that humanity has been present on Earth far longer than contemporary science proposes?

Still, it is possible that these tales are mythological, or later additions to the texts rather than part of the original teachings. In any case, such information may be secondary to the practice of the Dhamma and is likely better investigated by those who have already attained some degree of enlightenment.

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I once spoke with a geologist about the age of the earth and the universe. Both are not very old compared to what Buddhism says. For instance, kalapas or even the description of the world suggest we must accept something different than what science says. Mount Meru exists in another dimension.

A single asaṅkheyya is far greater than these numbers.

GPT, which I assume is basic science knowledge:

  • Earth – about 4.54 billion years old. This is measured by radiometric dating of meteorites and Earth’s oldest rocks.
  • Milky Way Galaxy – the oldest stars in it are about 13.5 billion years old, so the galaxy itself is usually estimated at 13.6 billion years.
  • Universe – about 13.8 billion years old, based on cosmic microwave background measurements and expansion rates (Hubble constant, ΛCDM model).
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True. we know from the Buddhavamsa that at a typical lifespan of 100,000 years humans already look mostly like us - albeit larger and (i think) die via oppapatika. But “human” is used very loosely from our modern scientific POV. For the early “humans” that were genderless and more similar to brahma beings than humans or even devas they exist above the 100,000 year mark and probably have incalculable lifespans comparable to that of brahmas

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i actually thought mount meru was at the center of our milky way galaxy and thats why its a spiral. and it just doesnt give off light like stars do so our telescopes cant make it out.

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Mount Meru is a divine mountain.

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This does make sense if it is true that the texts say (not sure myself) that the sun and the moon revolve around it.

Where it isn’t for sure is our earth, in any manner of speaking.

Also, when the Buddha says “the world”, who knows what he means, this world, our galaxy or the entire cosmos.

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Its hard to say. We have to remember that these modern scientific classifications didnt exist at the time and trying to fit Buddhist cosmology into it is anachronistic. i originally thought that a world system was a “universe” and multiple world systems was multiple universes. But one of my temple friends said it was a “galaxy”. and this seems to be supported by the fact that when the cosmos expands and contracts - all the world systems do too. implying that the cosmos is the universe and world system is a galaxy or lesser. I originally thought the world systems expanded/contracted independently which is why i thought the world system was a universe but i think i read on this forum somewhere its actually all the world systems that expand and contract at the same time along with the larger cosmos. But this is just speculation of course. someone with a modern understanding of astronomy with divine eyes/abhinna powers would need to verify if they are galaxies, solar systems, or something else completely.

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AN3.80 Cūḷanikā Suttaṁ

In this translation, Ven. Sujato introduced the terms “galaxy,” “galaxy cluster,” and “galactic supercluster.” Although I believe his translation is correct, for the sake of this specific discussion, I have adapted it by removing these terms. In bold are my substitutions.

Ānanda, a thousandfold lesser world system extends a thousand times as far as the moon and sun revolve and the shining ones light up the quarters. In that thousandfold lesser world system there are a thousand moons, a thousand suns, a thousand Sinerus king of mountains, a thousand Black Plum Tree Lands, a thousand lands west of Godāvarī, a thousand lands north of Kuru, a thousand lands east of Videha, four thousand oceans, four thousand great kings, a thousand realms of the gods of the four great kings, a thousand realms of the gods of the thirty-three, of the gods of Yama, of the joyful gods, of the gods who love to imagine, of the gods who control what is imagined by others, and a thousand realms of divinity. This is called a thousandfold lesser world system.

A world system that extends for a thousand galaxies is called a millionfold middling world system.

A world system that extends for a thousand millionfold middling world system is called a billionfold great world system.

According to this sutta, there is one Mount Sineru for each Sun, a Mount Sineru for each solar system. They do not appear to correspond to any astronomical phenomenon visible to humans without psychic powers. In this context, the idea that Mount Sineru is a “divine mountain,” existing in a physical dimension parallel to ours and visible only to gods and those with the “divine eye,” seems more plausible. The other three continents would likewise belong to our solar system, though they remain invisible to humans without such powers.

A galaxy would correspond to a thousandfold lesser world system. In this case, “thousand” may simply mean a very large number. Alternatively, it could suggest that within a galaxy there are only a limited number of solar systems—perhaps around a thousand—that are suitable for life.

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That is perfectly possible as well. It is all speculation at this point. One of my dreams is to get abhinna powers sometime in this life so i can compare Buddhist cosmology with the modern way we understand our physical universe.

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