Alcohol poll at the Mahayana forum

It’s interesting that there is no “complete abstention” option at this poll:

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=41405

Perhaps complete abstention from alcohol is not that common among Mahayanists?

edited for typo, forgot to put “no”

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According to some forms of Tibetan Buddhism, its ok to drink alcohol. It’s justified on the basis of some of their Tantra and Yogācāra Abhidharma.

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Milarepa’s teacher “Marpa” was said to be drunk on “chang” (beer) often in the milarepa book I read by Evans Wentz in the 90’s (if my memory is correct). There was also a famous Tibetan teacher who was famous for drinking heavy hard alcohol as fast as if it were water . I forget the name and don’t feel like looking it up.

Okay I googled “Who was the tibetan teacher who drank a lot of alcohol”
Chögyam Trungpa
Yup… that’s the one. Funny that Google can find this “teacher” by this search query… #1 spot points to wikipedia.

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I think in Theravada, alcoholic beverages are not allowed at all. It has been many years for me abstain from alcohol.

I don’t think cooking alcohol is allowable too. Maybe Bhante Subhuti can explain more to us, if got time.

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It is not seeing or believing the drawbacks of one or more Kilesas that diverts people out of Orthodox Theravada Buddhism.

As for cooking, i’m not sure… However, there are some medicines that are allowed, but one should not really be able to taste it.

This is from the BMC:

Non-offenses. The Vibhaṅga states that there is no offense in taking items that are non-alcoholic, but whose color, taste, or smell is like alcohol There is also no offense in taking alcohol “cooked in broth, meat, or oil.” The Commentary interprets the first two items as referring to sauces, stews, and meat dishes to which alcoholic beverages, such as wine, are added for flavoring before they are cooked. Because the alcohol would evaporate during the cooking, it would have no intoxicating effect. Foods containing unevaporated alcohol — such as rum babas — would not be included under this allowance.

As for alcohol cooked in oil, this refers to a medicine used in the Buddha’s time for afflictions of the “wind element.” The Mahāvagga (VI.14.1) allows this medicine for use only as long as the taste, color, and smell of the alcohol are not perceptible. From this point, the Vinaya-mukha argues that morphine and other narcotics used as pain killers are allowable as well. In addition, the non-offense clauses contain a phrase that can be read in two different ways. The first way would be, “With regard to molasses and emblic myrobalan, (there is no offense) if he drinks unfermented ariṭṭha.” This is the way the Commentary interprets the phrase, which it explains as follows: Ariṭṭha is the name of an aged medicine, made from emblic myrobalan, etc., whose color taste, and smell are like alcohol, but which is not alcoholic. This item, however, would seem to come under the first non-offense clause. Another way to read the phrase would be to take ariṭṭha as an adjective, which would yield, “With regard to molasses and emblic myrobalan, (there is no offense) if he drinks what has not fermented and not turned bad.” Perhaps the mixture of emblic myrobalan and molasses was used to make a type of toddy, in which case the allowance would grant permission for the mixture to be drunk before it had fermented. This allowance could then be extended to liquids like apple cider consumed before it has turned alcoholic.

This was also in the bmc while looking up the rule:

“Bhikkhus, there are these four obscurations of the sun and moon, obscured by which the sun and moon don’t glow, don’t shine, don’t dazzle. Which four? Clouds… Fog… Smoke and dust… Rāhu, the king of the asuras (believed to be the cause of an eclipse) is an obscuration, obscured by which the sun and moon don’t glow, don’t shine, don’t dazzle… In the same way, there are four obscurations of contemplatives and brahmans, obscured by which some contemplatives and brahmans don’t glow, don’t shine, don’t dazzle. Which four? There are some contemplatives and brahmans who… do not refrain from drinking alcohol and fermented liquor… who do not refrain from sexual intercourse … who do not refrain from accepting gold and silver … who do not refrain from wrong livelihood… Because of these obscurations, some brahmans and contemplatives … covered with darkness, slaves to craving, led on, swell the terrible charnel ground, grab at further becoming.” — AN IV.50

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It takes hours of cooking to evaporate them all. I wouldn’t risk eating any alcohol cooked food, as we are not always available to check if they cooked that long for all the alcohol to be gone.

Once in a small monastery, our regular donor/cook had prepared an alcohol cooked dish. I showed similar websites to her to educate her better not to do it next time. I did not eat the dish (maybe except for the first bite, where I start to know or maybe I found out in another way, I forgot.)

So nowadays, I would share this information to those who still say it’s ok to use alcohol in cooking.

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Hmmm… maybe strepsils?

Strepsils - Wikipedia.

I only found out about this a few weeks ago. So sad, I am thinking to abstain from this medicine in the future just in case or do you think it’s allowable?

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It is part of the vinaya… about concoctions .

From bmc 1

There is also no offense in taking alcohol “cooked in broth, meat, or oil.” The
Commentary interprets the first two items as referring to sauces, stews, and meat dishes to which alcoholic beverages, such as wine, are added for flavoring before they are cooked. Because the alcohol would evaporate during the cooking, it would have no intoxicating effect. Foods containing unevaporated alcohol — such as rum babas — would not be included under this allowance.

As for alcohol cooked in oil, this refers to a medicine used in the Buddha’s time for afflictions of the “wind element.” The Mahāvagga (VI.14.1) allows this medicine for use only as long as the taste, color, and smell of the alcohol are not perceptible. From this point, the Vinaya-mukha argues that morphine and other narcotics used as pain killers are allowable as well. In addition, the non-offense clauses contain a phrase that can be read in two different ways. The first way would be, “With regard to molasses and emblic myrobalan, (there is no offense) if he drinks unfermented ariṭṭha.” This is the way the Commentary interprets the phrase, which it explains as follows: Ariṭṭha is the name of an aged medicine, made from emblic myrobalan, etc., whose color taste, and smell are like alcohol, but which is not alcoholic. This item, however, would seem to come under the first non-offense clause. Another way to read the phrase would be to take ariṭṭha as an adjective, which would yield, “With regard to molasses and emblic myrobalan, (there is no offense) if he drinks what has not fermented and not turned bad.” Perhaps the mixture of emblic myrobalan and molasses was used to make a type of toddy, in which case the allowance would grant permission for the mixture to be drunk before it had fermented. This allowance could then be extended to liquids like apple cider consumed before it has turned alcoholic.

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