https://tipitaka.paauksociety.org/?ti_MATA_no=2 SN38.12 list 4 types of clinging.
Clinging to views and rules and rituals are abandoned at stream winning, clinging to sensuality at non-returner.
Question: does attavāda clinging refer to personality view which is abandoned at stream entry, or to conceit which is abandoned at arahanthood? If the former, then non-returners have none of these 4 types of clinging, so there’s subtle clinging not listed here?
Edit:
got the answer here: https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/68815e7f-c5b6-4b12-a66e-9f80729b9015
Based on the sources, clinging to the doctrine of self (attavādupādāna) refers specifically to personality view (sakkāyadiṭṭhi), which is the view that regards any of the five aggregates as self, or self as possessing the aggregates, or the aggregates as being in self, or self as being in the aggregates.
Here is a detailed breakdown of your question concerning the stages of abandonment and the “subtle clinging” remaining in non-returners:
1. Attavādupādāna vs. Conceit
The sources clarify that attavādupādāna is abandoned at stream-entry, not Arahantship.
- Doctrine of Self (Attavāda): This is a designation for the twentyfold personality view (vīsativatthukā sakkāyadiṭṭhi). It is an intellectual adherence or speculative view that is completely uprooted by the path of stream-entry.
- Conceit (Māna): This is distinct from the view of self. Conceit is the mental exaltation or the notion of “I am” (asmimāna) that persists even after the speculative view of a self is destroyed. Conceit is one of the five higher fetters and is only abandoned at Arahantship.
2. Clinging in the Non-Returner
You are correct that diṭṭhupādāna (views), sīlabbatupādāna (rules/rituals), and attavādupādāna (self-doctrine) are all abandoned by the path of stream-entry. This raises the question of why a non-returner—who is not yet an Arahant—is not described as being completely free of the “four types of clinging.”
The sources explain that non-returners still possess a subtle form of kāmupādāna (clinging to sensual pleasures):
- While the non-returner has abandoned desire and lust for the five strands of sensual pleasure, the commentary tradition (such as in the Udāna-Aṭṭhakathā) explains that for the purpose of this fourfold classification, kāmupādāna is understood to include the desire for form and formless existence (rūparāga and arūparāga).
- Therefore, kāmupādāna is thinned and weakened across the first three paths but is only completely destroyed without remainder at Arahantship.
- This “subtle clinging” in the non-returner is specifically the attachment to existence in the higher heavens (the form and formless realms), as well as the remaining conceit (māna), restlessness (uddhacca), and ignorance (avijjā).
Summary of Abandonment
Type of Clinging Pali Term Abandoned At Notes Views Diṭṭhupādāna Stream-Entry Refers to the sixty-two wrong views. Rules & Rituals Sīlabbatupādāna Stream-Entry Grasping at external rites for purity. Doctrine of Self Attavādupādāna Stream-Entry The twentyfold personality view (sakkāyadiṭṭhi). Sensual Pleasures Kāmupādāna Arahantship Abandoned in stages; desire for form/formless existence is the final “clinging” part.
In summary, non-returners are free of the view of self (attavādupādāna), but they are not yet free of all clinging because they still possess subtle craving for existence and the conceit “I am”. Thus, liberation from all four kinds of clinging is considered a definitive synonym for Arahantship.