While alive the Buddha and arahats had ceased all the links of the paticcasamupada?

[zerotime]

@RobertK

@zerotime

@RobertK

. But still they have to wait until final khandha parinibbana until the khandas -which include vinnana, finally cease. Then all that is left is the physical remains.

that “final” cease of consciousness is the same cease of consciousness. No difference.

You mean that khandha paribbanna and the consciousness of the living arahat is the same?

That is quite wrong. I cited the term samuccheda-marana (death as cutting off)and that is the ending of all consciousness. Unlike with the non-arahat there will be no patisandhi citta, no rebirth. The job is done. However the living arahat still has vinnana khandha.

no Robert, I write what it can be read. I wrote “that final” cease of consciousness is the same cease of consciousness. No difference."

And this is not what you explain.

I write that the same cease of consciousness exist in the cease of consciousness at Parinibbana. The same non-clinging.

"Now, in one who keeps focusing on the drawbacks of clingable phenomena, craving ceases. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging, illness & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering & stress.
SN 12.52

although if you understood well what I wrote, and your answer is about there is a different nature of the Cease in Parinibbana because no khandas, then it would be better doing a pause to clarify one point. Because maybe I could have a different understanding of what is an orthodox view in the Buddhist teaching. And it would be good to know it to clarify better the discussion.

Because maybe we think the same although we differ in how to focus the issue. Or also maybe we think different. I’m not sure.

So I ask:

Do you mean the Buddha and arhants still should experience any kind of suffering until the physical death?.

@RobertK

The arahat had certainly eradicated ignorance, however consciousness was still arising.

the consciousness to be ceased as it was taught by the Buddha in the Suttas, this was ceased and without no more arising because no more clinging/sustenance. This is what the “Cease” means according the DO explanation.

The problem is when many people interprets that Cease like an annhilation of consciousness, while in fact the Buddha taught the Cease to the clinging-consciousness aggregate. At least this is quite clear to me because its frequent presence inside the Suttas.

And then, some people says “well, the consciousness was ceased but still it arises in the arhant”. That’s contradictory and without sense. This is quite spreaded and we can accept that phrase. However, this is an acceptance of a fact with a phrase which is not logical. This is not a real understanding about the meaning of “Cease” in the Suttas. That’s all the problem here. Although of course this can derive in a materialism/annihilationism or in an eternalism.

Just my view