# What do you think of those who say there's nothing after the end of namarupa?

**URL:** <https://classicaltheravada.org/t/what-do-you-think-of-those-who-say-theres-nothing-after-the-end-of-namarupa/1131>\
**Category:** General Theravada topics\
**Created:** [February 28, 2024, 10:50am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/what-do-you-think-of-those-who-say-theres-nothing-after-the-end-of-namarupa/1131 "2024-02-28T10:50:03Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 41

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**Author:** ![Paññādhammika](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/pa%C3%B1%C3%B1%C4%81dhammika/32/972_2.png) [@Paññādhammika](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/Pa%C3%B1%C3%B1%C4%81dhammika)\
**Post date:** [March 24, 2024, 8:31am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/what-do-you-think-of-those-who-say-theres-nothing-after-the-end-of-namarupa/1131/41 "2024-03-24T08:31:37Z")

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> [@zerotime](#):
>
> they don’t accept the Buddha complete eradication of dukkha, despite the words spoken by the same Buddha. It seems in that EBT Buddhism there is no recognition of the difference between body pain and dukkha by means the no-clinging of Buddha and Arhants. They name explicitly “suffering” to the body pain arising in the Buddha and Arhants.

From Abhidhamma: [SuttaCentral](https://suttacentral.net/vb6/en/anandajoti?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false)

Definition of Pain  
Herein, what is ‘pain?’

That which is bodily pain, bodily disagreeableness, pain arising from contact with the body, disagreeable feeling, pain and painful feeling that is born in the body.

This is said to be ‘pain’.

Pain is the translation for dukkha here. The word dukkha has many meanings from all suffering including mental and physical suffering to just only physical suffering. Mental suffering ends at attainment of arahanthood while alive.

> [@zerotime](#):
>
> no acceptance of the possibility of a true complete nibbana in life, only after death. Logically it means a denying of the transcendent character of the Buddha teaching.

There’s 2 kinds of nibbāna, with remainder and without remainder.

> [@Nyanaponika](#):
>
> But there still remain with him (until his death) the five sense- organs that have not yet disappeared

Your claim for this means arahants has no more mind consciousness is untenable. The Abhidhamma analysis specifically has the just functional citta for arahants. If arahants do not have mind consciousness, there would be no need for abhidhamma to assign this functional thing to arahants. The other 3 possibilities for consciousness are: wholesome, unwholesome and resultant.

> [@zerotime](#):
>
> no explanation or understanding between the five-clinging aggregates and the five aggregates.

Five aggregates which is clung to is 5 clinging aggregates. When clinging ceases, gone, no more, eradicated, destroyed by the arahant, their 5 aggregate are still there, functional for them, but unclung to. The rest of your unquoted paragraph here is a gross misunderstanding which I have no idea how you can even get to.

> [@zerotime](#):
>
> course of one life: the D.O. only will be finally accomplished after the physical death

No. Dependent origination is many lives. That’s why after ignorance ends for the arahants, their consciousness until feelings are still there. The final cessation of consciousness is only at death, parinibbāna of an arahant. If it’s one life model, then it makes more sense to say from cessation of ignorance, consciousness ceases as well in this life. But consciousness for many life model refers to rebirth relinking consciousness. That’s why only future rebirth relinking consciousness is totally ceased while arahant is still alive and not all consciousness.

> [@zerotime](#):
>
> interesting because maybe that annhilationist interpretation of nibbana

If you still think in terms of self, you woulf naturally think of cessation of 5 aggregates, 6 sense bases with nothing leftover as annihilation, but when there’s no self, there’s only suffering which arises and ceases, nothing worth clung onto. Annihilation doesn’t apply to cessation. Although to an atheist it looks like the same thing.

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