The Sri Lankan Buddhist philosopher David Kalupahana sees Venerable Moggaliputta Tissa as a predecessor of Nagarjuna in being a champion of the Middle Way and a reviver of the original philosophical ideals of the Buddha

The Sri Lankan Buddhist philosopher David Kalupahana sees him as a predecessor of Nagarjuna in being a champion of the Middle Way and a reviver of the original philosophical ideals of the Buddha.

Note: David Kalupahana, Mulamadhyamakakarika of Nagarjuna: The Philosophy of the Middle Way. Motilal Banarsidass, 2005, pages 2,5.

-Wikipedia page on Venerable Moggaliputta Tissa

Thoughts? Was the Venerable Moggaliputta Tissa teaching the exact same thing as Nagarjuna, so much so that their teachings are entirely compatible, to the point that the Venerable Moggaliputta Tissa can be seen as a predecessor of Nagarjuna?

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by robertk »

Kalupahana, David J. (1994), A history of Buddhist philosophy
Just as the Theravāda monks were cautious in welcoming Buddhaghosa, so Buddhaghosa was careful in introducing any new ideas into the Mahāvihāra tradition in a way that was too obvious. There seems to be no doubt that the Visuddhimagga and the commentaries are a testimony to the abilities of a great harmonizer who blended old and new ideas without arousing suspicion in the minds of those who were scrutinizing his work.

We are “lucky” that these moderns like Kalupahana are able to detect these 'new ideas". Those ancient Bhikkus were so gullible he thinks . And imagine, Buddhaghosa’s Commentaries were so valued as to be kept as part of Theravada all these millenia.

Would it be harsh to say I think he is a … (edited out )

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Some even said Arahant Moggaliputta Tissa Thera is Arahant Upagupta…

I think many Burmese people worship Arahant Upagupta.

He is commonly depicted sitting cross-legged, dressed in monk’s robes and with a hand tilted into an alms bowl called a thabeik, and is associated with nāga, water serpents. He is believed to be either Moggaliputta-Tissa, a Buddhist monk who presided the Third Buddhist council, Upagupta, a Mahayana arhat, or a creation of Mahayana Buddhism, because he is not described in the Pali Canon and only mentioned in the Burmese historical chronicle Maha Yazawin.

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Exactly. My take is, first and foremost, what in the world kind of confirmation bias glasses is this author wearing that he sees Nagarjuna’s teachings in any Theravada work at all, let alone the Kathavatthu?

Nagarjuna taught extreme nihilism, or, if you agree with his apologists, he taught extreme relativism. His teachings literally self refute, no question about it. He taught that nothing exists whatsoever. Whereas the Kathavatthu is full of defenses of Theravada realism, and the Theravada position on nibbana. Nagarjuna’s teaching is founded on the idea that nothing exists whatsoever, including nibbana. He was conclusively, and inarguably an anti-realist. So… how in the world could anyone come to this conclusion is beyond me, hence why I was looking for further understanding from you fine people.

Both samsara and nirvana,
Neither of these two exists;
The thorough understanding of cyclic existence
This is referred to as “nirvana”
-Nagarjuna, Sixty Stanzas, verse 6

There is no distinction whatsoever between samsara and nirvana; and there is no distinction whatsoever between nirvana and samsara.
-Nagarjuna, Mulamadhyamakakarika, chapter 25

Nagarjuna…rejects… that there actually are dharmas. …there cannot be such things… Not only are the person and other partite things devoid of intrinsic nature and so mere conceptual fictions, the same holds for dharmas as well. This is what it means to say that all things are empty.
Nagarjuna’s Middle Way, Mark Siderits, page 7

Did the author read the same Nagarjuna as the rest of us? Seriously, this is bizarre and makes zero sense. It’s one thing to play games with the suttas, which are sometimes less specific than the commentary tradition, but to play the same game with the Kathavatthu is really wild, because the latter was designed specifically to refute views like Nagarjuna’s! I guess the confirmation bias prescription is really, really high in his glasses, and the confirmation bias wheel just rolls along with all the other people who love Mahayana, but want to be authentic by claiming to be Theravada, and so must “find” Nagarjuna in Theravada. What a joke.

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I think this website summaries Nagajurna’s teachings quite well:

“Whatever is dependent arising; We declared that to be emptiness. That is dependent designation And is itself the middle way.” - Nagarjuna

But Sakavada (Vibhajjavada) taught there is, indeed, Sabhava. In my understanding, the Sabhava is not empty as taught by Vibhajjavada. This Sabhava is real when arises due to conditionality, and no more after ceases. Which is different from Sarvāstivāda that said even after the ceasing, the Sabhava Dhamma continues to exist. While Nagarjuna at later stage introduced all emptiness.

To me, the Middle Path was followed by Vibhajjavada…not Sarvāstivāda and not Nagarjuna’s Madhyamaka.

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Well said. You are correct; the Theravada literally teach the exact opposite of Nagarjuna. And, I agree with you; the middle way between eternalism (Sarvastivada) and nihilism (Nagarjuna) is Theravada.

Nagarjuna…rejects… that there actually are dharmas. …there cannot be such things… Not only are the person and other partite things devoid of intrinsic nature and so mere conceptual fictions, the same holds for dharmas as well. This is what it means to say that all things are empty.
Nagarjuna’s Middle Way, Mark Siderits, page 7

Madhyamaka, also known as śūnyavāda (the emptiness doctrine) and niḥsvabhāvavāda (the no svabhāva doctrine) refers to a tradition of Buddhist philosophy and practice founded by the Indian philosopher Nāgārjuna (c. 150 – c. 250 CE). The foundational text of the mādhyamaka tradition is Nāgārjuna’s Mūlamadhyamakakārikā (Root Verses on the Middle Way). More broadly, madhyamaka also refers to the ultimate nature of phenomena as well as the non-conceptual realization of ultimate reality that is experienced in meditation.

-Wikipedia page on Madhyamaka

Both samsara and nirvana,
Neither of these two exists;
The thorough understanding of cyclic existence
This is referred to as “nirvana”
-Nagarjuna, Sixty Stanzas, verse 6

There is no distinction whatsoever between samsara and nirvana; and there is no distinction whatsoever between nirvana and samsara.
-Nagarjuna, Mulamadhyamakakarika, chapter 25

It is the dhammas alone that possess ultimate reality: determinate existence “from their own side” (sarupato) independent of the minds conceptual processing of the data. Such a conception of the nature of the real seems to be already implicit in the Sutta Pitaka, particularly in the Buddha’s disquisitions on the aggregates, sense bases, elements, dependent arising, etc.,…

Thus by examining the conventional realities with wisdom, we eventually arrive at the objective actualities that lie behind our conceptual constructs. It is these objective actualities – the dhammas, which maintain their intrinsic natures independent of the mind’s constructive functions…

…the commentaries consummate the dhamma theory by supplying the formal definition of dhammas as “things which bear their own intrinsic nature” (attano sabhavam dharenti ti dhamma).

…concretely produced matter…possess intrinsic natures and are thus suitable for contemplation and comprehension by insight.

Great seers who are free from craving declare that Nibbana is an
objective state which is deathless, absolutely endless, unconditioned,
and unsurpassed.
Thus as fourfold the Tathagatas reveal the ultimate realities—
consciousness, mental factors, matter, and Nibbana.
-Bhikkhu Bodhi, Acariya Anuruddha, A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, pages 3, 15, 26, 235, 260

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See also:

Nagarjuna’s Masterpiece: Logical, Mystical, Both or Neither? by Stafford L. Betty.

Is Nagarjuna a Philosopher? by Stafford L. Betty

Nagarjuna: Master of Paradox, Mystic or Perpetrator of Fallacies? by Richard Hayes

Did Nagarjuna Really Refute All Philosophical Views? by Richard Robinson

tl;dr, Nagarjuna’s philosophy is a self refuting mess and is entirely invalid. The only way a logical, intelligent person could accept it is purely on faith, as a mystical teaching, because it does not hold up to logic at all, nor is it even a valid philosophy.

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Maybe this quote helps to explain the difference:

[quote]
The Buddha elucidates the right view to venerable Kaccayana:

“This world, Kaccayana, usually rests on two things: on existence and non-existence. He, who with right insight sees uprising of the world as it really is, does not hold with the non-existence of the world. But he, who with right insight sees the passing away of the world as it really is, does not hold with the existence of the world.

Grasping after systems, imprisoned by dogmas is this world, Kaccayana, for the most part. And the man, who does not go after that system grasping, that mental standpoint, that dogmatic bias, does not grasp at it, does not take up his stand upon it. …‘Everything exists’ is one extreme, ‘nothing exists’ is the other extreme. Not approaching either extreme, Tathagata teaches a doctrine by the middle, namely; through ignorance conditioned are the kamma formations (and so on).”
S. II, p. 17 [quote]

From Essentials of Buddhism, page 92

Here, Sarvāstivāda is the tenet of “everything exists”, while Śūnyavāda by Nagarjuna is the tenet of “nothing exists”. Safe to say, both tenets were extremes. Vibhajjavada aka classical Theravada emphasizes Paṭiccasamuppāda and Sabhava according to Conditionality (the details as in Visuddhimagga), so it is the middle ground.

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Very well said. The bizarre thing is the Nagarjuna apologists that conveniently ignore, or attempt to reinterpret his overt statements (some referenced above) that clearly state that nothing exists (ie. neither nibbana nor samsara, so, everything), and try to posit that he wasn’t a nihilist. It is amazing the level of confirmation bias people are willing to reach. In the Mulamadhyamakakarika, Nagarjuna went through everything that exists and ostensibly discredited literally every one, going from the aggregates, to the elements and dhammas, and working his way up to everything else. Yet many read it and somehow think that he was saying something coherent, and not nihilist. The only scholars I’ve seen get it right are the ones in the papers mentioned by me above.

  1. From the nonexistence of seeing and the seen it follows that
    The other four faculties of knowledge do not exist.
    And all the aggregates, etc.,
    Are the same way
    -MMK chapter 3
  1. From this it follows that there is no characterized
    And no existing characteristic.
    Nor is there any entity
  2. If there is no existent thing,
    Of what will there be nonexistence?
    Apart from existent and nonexistent things
    Who knows existence and nonexistence?
  3. Therefore, space is not an entity.
    It is not a nonentity.
    Not characterized, not without character.

The same is true of the other five elements.
-MMK chapter 4

Nirvana is not existent.
-MMK chapter 25

Compare:

Great seers who are free from craving declare that Nibbana is an
objective state which is deathless, absolutely endless, unconditioned,
and unsurpassed.
Thus as fourfold the Tathagatas reveal the ultimate realities—
consciousness, mental factors, matter, and Nibbana.
-Bhikkhu Bodhi, Acariya Anuruddha, A Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, page 260

At Sāvatthī. “Bhikkhus, I do not dispute with the world; rather, it is the world that disputes with me (Nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, lokena vivadāmi, loko va mayā vivadati). A proponent of the Dhamma does not dispute with anyone in the world. Of that which the wise in the world agree upon as not existing, I too say that it does not exist. And of that which the wise in the world agree upon as existing, I too say that it exists.

“And what is it, bhikkhus, that the wise in the world agree upon as existing, of which I too say that it exists? Form that is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change: this the wise in the world agree upon as existing, and I too say that it exists. Feeling … Perception … Volitional formations … Consciousness that is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change: this the wise in the world agree upon as existing, and I too say that it exists.
-SN 22.94

Yet, somehow people read this self contradictory, riddling, nihilist drivel, and claim that he wasn’t promoting nihilism. Total self delusion. He literally says that the aggregates do not exist! The aggregates are basically the sutta equivalent of the first three paramattha dhammas lol! And he says that nibbana doesn’t exist either, so, he openly states that all four of the paramattha dhammas do not exist. The self delusion is really powerful on the people who completely misinterpret these texts to be saying other than what they obviously say. These people usually contradict themselves, anyway. If someone says he wasn’t a nihilist, they also won’t concede that he was a realist, either (except one author, Jay Garfield, but he’s very much alone), and so end up in the Ajnana position (declared as “sheer stupidity” in DN 1) of stating nothing at all. So, he was an extreme skeptic, but… inexplicably made really firm statements declaring that nothing exists, regularly, huh… how could a true skeptic make such claims that require knowledge? His whole joke of a system relies on being able to make knowledgeable, logical statements about reality. No such thing is possible from a true skeptic position, and, hence, he completely, and irretrievably, self refutes. As Betty deftly remarks:

You cannot prove something to be erroneous with erroneous proof.
-Stafford L. Betty, Nagarjuna’s Masterpiece: Logical, mystical, both, or neither?

From here, apologists point out that Nagarjuna admitted that his system self refutes and so on. Because of this, they contend, it retains its validity. They fail to realize that they are essentially saying “Nagarjuna admitted his system is invalid, therefore it is valid.” Wow.

After being defeated by their own nonsense position, many fall back on Nagarjuna being positionless, which is ostensibly a valid position. This, obviously, makes no sense, and is in direct contradiction to Nagarjuna’s constant delineation of his position, all the while declaring he had none.

I think the most reasonable conclusion is to admit that Buddhism is nothing but a thin facade on Nagarjuna’s teachings: Ajnana led to Pyrrhonism, which led to Madhyamaka.

This is as opposed to Buddhism leading to Pyrrhonism, and then inexplicably leading to the strikingly Ajnana sounding Madhyamaka. That, plus, of course, the Mahayana sutras mixing with Ajnana/Pyrrhonism, explains the huge discrepancy between the suttas and Nagarjuna.

Scholars including Barua, Jayatilleke, and Flintoff, contend that Pyrrho was influenced by, or at the very least agreed with, Indian scepticism rather than Buddhism or Jainism, based on the fact that he valued ataraxia, which can be translated as “freedom from worry”. Jayatilleke, in particular, contends that Pyrrho may have been influenced by the first three schools of Ajñana, since they too valued freedom from worry. If this is true, then the methods of the Ajñanins may be preserved in the extant work by the Pyrrhonist philosopher Sextus Empiricus.
-wikipedia page on Ajnana

Because of the high degree of similarity between Madhyamaka and Pyrrhonism, Thomas McEvilley and Matthew Neale suspect that Nāgārjuna was influenced by Greek Pyrrhonist texts imported into India.
-wikipedia page on Madhyamaka

Thus, to sum up neatly, Kalupahana’s position amounts to Nagarjuna having the correct, original philosophical ideals of the Buddha. These very same ideals that Nagarjuna held are identical to Ajnana, and the Buddha declared Ajnana “a product of sheer sutpidity”. Kalupahana then, inexplicably, and against all evidence, equates this asinine position of Nagarjuna with the Venerable Moggaliputta Tissa, who dedicated a huge amount of his work, the Kathavatthu, to refuting precisely ideas that Nagarjuna later held.

And what is wrong view? ‘There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no contemplatives or brahmans who, faring rightly & practicing rightly, proclaim this world & the next after having directly known & realized it for themselves.’ This is wrong view.
-MN 117

The Madhyamaka position is precisely this.

there is nothing that arises
-Nagarjuna, Sixty Stanzas, verse 21

Both samsara and nirvana,
Neither of these two exists;
The thorough understanding of cyclic existence
This is referred to as “nirvana”
-Nagarjuna, ibid, verse 6

Thus, it becomes clear and incontrovertible that Nagarjuna taught the opposite of the Buddha, and of Venerable Moggaliputta Tissa.

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I feel like I didn’t cap this up as totally as my other thread about Yogacara. I’m going to post a quick summary, now, and, later, when I have more time, I’m going to actually read through each paper referenced above and provide a short summary.

For now, I’ll say: Nagarjuna is interpreted as a few different things, each with self refuting, or redundancy creating negatives.

1.) Nagarjuna’s teachings are that nothing exists whatsoever.

The obvious response here, is that if nothing exists whatsoever, then Nagarjuna has nothing to teach us at all, and his Buddhism is a non teaching. There would be zero reason to read his works, nor study Buddhism, let alone anything else, at all. This is a silly, even asinine position. It, by definition, self refutes into oblivion.

2.) Nagarjuna’s teachings are not that nothing exists! Only that everything is relative, and that nothing is true.

The response, here, is that this is yet another self refuting, ridiculous idea. If nothing is true, because everything is relative, then it is impossible that the statement “everything is relative” could be true. Hence, here, again, Nagarjuna would be self refuting silliness.

3.) Nagarjuna isn’t saying any of that! You are misrepresenting the great Nagarjuna! He didn’t teach anything different from what the Buddha taught in the Pali Canon.

The only response here is: Well, if this is true, despite that being conclusively false (see above posts of mine, where I demonstrate that he taught literally the opposite of what the historical Buddha taught), then what in the world is all the fuss over his teachings about? Why would we need to read his teachings, when we already have the Pali Canon? Why would Nagarjuna have wasted his time composing so many works if his works are identical to the Pali Canon? Wouldn’t he have just directed students and seekers to the words of the historical Buddha? Wouldn’t he, at the very most, have written commentary on the suttas, rather than blathering on into total insanity about extreme relativism/nihilism, unless he didn’t believe those teachings were represented in the suttas? And, the most devastating argument, which utterly obliterates this idea: Wouldn’t he have rejected the Mahayana sutras, if this was the case? Obviously, this doesn’t at all support Nagarjuna’s teachings being worth anyone’s time, and is a redundant position.

4.) Nagarjuna taught the mystical, magical Mahayana version of the Dharma, which supersedes all Theravada Hinayana Dharma. We must have faith in this correct Dharma, as it is the next turning of the wheel of Dharma.

Response: Come, on, that’s a low ball. You guys aren’t even trying any more. Well, anyway: Nope. Historical consensus is that Mahayana has no direct connection to the actual Buddha whatsoever. The “Buddha” of the Mahayana sutras is a fictional character. Only postmodernist historians, and critical theory influenced and, otherwise “woke” historians would come to any other conclusion (for the unaware: these historians do not believe that objective reality exists, so, trust them if you dare). The objective fact is that Mahayana is a fictional religion that was created centuries after the Parinibbana of the historical Buddha. It was the religious equivalent of when a really great book series ends, and fans start writing fan fiction to keep the story going, and, because they’re just goofy fans, not the original writer, they tend to be outlandish, and silly.

5.) Well, Nagarjuna used magic powers to go to the Naga realm, where the Buddha hid the Mahayana sutras until humans were ready for them. So, the Mahayana sutras are written by the Buddha through magical means that are unverifiable by historians.

Wow, come on guys. Another low ball. This logic means that we must ignore all of history, and logic on what the Buddha taught, versus what is made up by babbling idiots, because any claim that the Buddha hid something in some magical realm is to be accepted purely on faith. Thus, if we accept that Nagarjuna is the magical man who brought forth the Buddha’s true teachings from the snake realm, we must also accept the crazy man on the street who claims the same, and presents us with new “authentic” teachings of the Buddha. This is essentially an open canon. where any idiot can add “legitimate” teachings to the canon, and we must accept them as 100% word of the Buddha. Even if, and perhaps especially if they’re utterly contradictory, ridiculous ideas, since that is the precedent set by Mahayana, supposedly “authentic” teachings of the Buddha. Wow. You have got to be kidding me! But, alas, sadly, no, this is actually a very common position. It is indefensible nonsense, but that doesn’t mean people don’t hold to this position anyway.

6.) Well, that last point is no different than the Theravada position that the Buddha taught the abhidhamma to his mother in the Tavatimsa realm!

No, it is entirely different. First, and foremost, the abhidhamma is mentioned by name in the Pali Canon suttas (ex: MN 32) and Vinaya, and is referenced as the matikas (ex: AN 6.51, DN 16), Thus, the Buddha himself mentioned it, as did his followers. There is, of course, zero reference to the Mahayana sutras in the Pali Canon. Second, the abhidhamma predates the Mahayana sutras by hundreds of years, and there’s no evidence that the abhidhamma doesn’t go back to the Buddha himself, and there is evidence that it does go back to him, as mentioned above, in the form of him, and his followers, actually mentioning the matikas, etc. in the Pali Canon. This argument is a false equivalency, and a straw man caricature of the Theravada abhidhamma.

Stay tuned for my summaries of four brilliant papers that completely destroy Nagarjuna, and thus, the entire Mahayana school, except for a hint of Yogacara, which is refuted in my other thread.

After reading the inexorable conclusions about Nagarjuna, and my other thread about Yogacara, the fact is apparent that Classical Theravada is, quite literally, the only option, because almost all other schools are infected, to some degree, by Mahayana. I hope, through these writings, to help at least a few people get over any fascination with Mahayana, and focus their precious time in the human realm on Classical Theravada practice.

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I think that in David J kalupahanas interpretation of MMK, it doesn’t say that nothing exists. It says that there is a real danger in considering certain things having their own inherent existence and not being paticcasamuppana.

I was referring to this

“In Mahāyāna Buddhism, śūnyatā refers to the tenet that “all things are empty of intrinsic existence and nature (svabhava)”, but may also refer to the Buddha-nature teachings and primordial or empty awareness, as in Dzogchen, Shentong, or Chan.”

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@SamD I think that in David J kalupahanas interpretation of MMK, it doesn’t say that nothing exists. It says that there is a real danger in considering certain things having their own inherent existence and not being paticcasamuppana.

I appreciate the thought. However, the common thread amongst Nagarjuna enthusiasts is that they certainly will say this, that they do not claim nothing exists, but then if pressed to declare what does exist, they can’t point to anything. This exposes the incoherence of Nagarjuna’s philosophy. It is a mealy mouthed Ajnana/Pyrrhonist philosophy, it is not Buddhism. In Buddhism nibbana exists absolutely, and so on. Nagarjuna declares even nibbana as empty/non existent, and samsara and nibbana to be the same thing (I’m sure I quoted all of this above somewhere if you want substantiation). His philosophy is nonsense.

Finally, if David Kalupahana doesn’t say Nagarjuna says nothing exists, then he has clearly missed something, because Nagarjuna said precisely that. One of several examples:

Both samsara and nirvana,
Neither of these two exists;
The thorough understanding of cyclic existence
This is referred to as “nirvana”
-Nagarjuna, Sixty Stanzas, verse 6

It is a complete contradiction of actual Buddhist teaching.

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Greetings Zans

I clearly am not an expert on Ven. Nagarjuna. I am aware there are many ways to interpret Nagarjuna. However I got to know him through David Kalupahana’s interpretation. IMO in that book Nagarjuna doesn’t say anything that contradicts the supreme teacher, Buddha.

The quote of Nagarjuna would render people think Nibbāna is Samsara and Samsara is Nibbāna…

Why striving?

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Yes it can be translated that way. Buy that’s not how Kalupahana translate it.

The life process has no thing that distinguishes it from freedom. Freedom has no thing that distinguishes it from the life process.
(From kalupahana’s book)

No thing has to be understood in context. Nagarjuna here is denying the substantiality (svabhava/atma). There is nothing substantial (svabhava/atma) found in samsara as well as Nirvana. In Nirvana Pariksa Kalupahana presents his argument in detail. My understanding of Nagarjuna comes from kalupahanas book. And I am sure subsequent works attributed to Nagarjuna might contain contradictions with early Buddhism. But from what I can understand the Nagarjuna present in Kalupahanas book is in line with early Buddhism. Since this is a classical Theravada forum I will refrain from further commenting about this matter.

Nagarjuna taught there is no such thing as svabhāva, no such thing as dharmas. It doesn’t matter how you define what the word “svabaha” means, he still taught that nothing has “svabaha”. This is the polar opposite of Theravada, which teaches that nibbana is a permanently existing dhamma that does have it’s own nature (svabaha Sanskrit, sabhavam Pali), and exists from its own side (sarupato).

Do you see how this is incompatible with Nagarjuna teaching that nothing has it’s own nature (svabaha), that nothing exists from its own side (sarupato), that dharmas do not exist, and that nothing is permanent? Nibbana is all four: it is a dhamma that has its own nature, exists from its own side, and is permanent.

Further, nibbana is utterly and clearly distinct from samsara in every way. While samsara is temporary, nibbana is described thusly, to repeat the quote:

And nibbana, again, is a dhamma (paramattha dhamma in pali), here again the same quote:

Yet Nagarjuna teaches the opposite, and we’ve already covered how his teaching of svabaha cannot be compatible with Theravada no matter how it is defined.

Just to spell it out, with a clear, extremely concise, and conclusive example, Nagarjuna flatly states: “Nirvana is not existent” which, presumably, is nibbana is not svabaha. Theravada teaches nibbana is svabaha.

Nibbana is a dhamma, which has own nature (svabaha Sanskrit, sabhavam Pali), and is permanent, as demonstrated repeatedly by the quotes above. Does that clear it up for you?

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Thank you very much for these quotes and explanation.
:pray:

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No problem :slight_smile:

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Mīmāṃsā refutation of Nagarjuna’s Two Truths Doctrine (note: this is completely inapplicable to the Classical Theravada two truths system, since the Theravada version is realist, and this critique is based on the anti realism of Nagarjuna):

"Chattopadhyaya notes that the eighth-century Mīmāṃsā philosopher Kumārila Bhaṭṭa rejected the Two Truths Doctrine in his Shlokavartika. Bhaṭṭa was highly influential with his defence of the Vedic rituals against medieval Buddhist rejections of these rituals. Some believe that his influence contributed to the decline of Buddhism in India[61] since his lifetime coincides with the period in which Buddhism began to decline. According to Kumarila, the two truths doctrine is an idealist doctrine, which conceals the fact that “the theory of the nothingness of the objective world” is absurd: Kumārila Bhaṭṭa: “The idealist talks of some ‘apparent truth’ or ‘provisional truth of practical life’, i.e. in his terminology, of samvriti satya. However, since in his own view, there is really no truth in this ‘apparent truth’, what is the sense of asking us to look at it as some special brand of truth as it were? If there is truth in it, why call it false at all? And, if it is really false, why call it a kind of truth? Truth and falsehood, being mutually exclusive, there cannot be any factor called ‘truth’ as belonging in common to both–no more than there can by any common factor called ‘treeness’ belonging to both the tree and the lion, which are mutually exclusive. On the idealist’s own assumption, this ‘apparent truth’ is nothing but a synonym for the ‘false’. Why, then, does he use this expression? Because it serves for him a very important purpose. It is the purpose of a verbal hoax. It means falsity, though with such a pedantic air about it as to suggest something apparently different, as it were. This is in fact a well known trick. Thus, to create a pedantic air, one can use the word vaktrasava [literally mouth-wine] instead of the simpler word lala, meaning saliva [vancanartha upanyaso lala-vaktrasavadivat]. But why is this pedantic air? Why, instead of simply talking of falsity, is the verbal hoax of an ‘apparent truth’ or samvriti? The purpose of conceiving this samvriti is only to conceal the absurdity of the theory of the nothingness of the objective world, so that it can somehow be explained why things are imagined as actually existing when they are not so. Instead of playing such verbal tricks, therefore, one should speak honestly. This means: one should admit that what does not exist, exists not; and what does exist, exists in the full sense. The latter alone is true, and the former false. But the idealist just cannot afford to do this. He is obliged instead to talk of ‘two truths’, senseless though this be.” -Wikipedia page on Two Truths Doctrine, Debiprasad Chattopadhyaya (2001). What is Living and What is Dead in Indian Philosophy 5th edition. pp. 370–1.

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