You have not looked at this problem from the other side. You have simply mentioned once again that arising and ceasing are suffering in themselves. It sounds like an axiom. But why it is suffering - you have not revealed. Why should that which arises and ceases precisely by this fact be suffering? Then you mentioned that Buddha experienced the pain of the physical body. But there is a variant of the Brahmas of pure abodes who have become arahants and do not experience the pain of the physical body.
@Ashkenn
What would you call that which is afflicted by rise and fall, what’s more incurably so ?
What is important is the fact of being afflicted by rise and fall.
That is, it is suffering only in some abstract, figurative sense? But why did we give it a shade of something negative then, if we do not directly feel it?
When we are talking about anicca and so forth we are still talking about namarupa dhammas. There is nothing abstract about them, they are truly and factually to be found.
May be instead of ‘suffering’ you could use ‘sickness’. Namarupa dhammas are a sicknes, afflicted by rise and fall. Ariyas look forward to their non occurrence.
nāmarūpamattamidaṃ yathārahaṃ paccayehi uppajjati ceva nirujjhati ca, na ettha koci kattā vā kāretā vā, hutvā abhāvaṭṭhena aniccaṃ, udayabbayapaṭipīḷanaṭṭhena dukkhaṃ, avasavattanaṭṭhena anattāti
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.122.than.html
Sariputta my friend, which things should a virtuous monk attend to in an appropriate way?"
“A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. Which five? Form as a clinging-aggregate, feeling… perception… fabrications… consciousness as a clinging-aggregate. A virtuous monk should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self.
1 Like
where is that from?
Cariyapitaka atthakatha
1 Like
Why is it called suffering? Due to condition, there are rise and fall. Such change is suffering which is an inherent characteristic of all conditioned dhamma even one is born in the Pure Abode. It is stated so by Buddha. Just like Buddha said Nibbana is the ultimate bliss as there is no change. It unconditioned, thus there is no rise or fall.
If we use your line of question, it is like asking why Nibbana which has no rise and fall or changes is called happiness. There is no answer, it is a fact said by Buddha.
Certainly, Buddhism encourages questioning and investigating. There is also a limit to Buddhism to it.
MN44
“Nibbāna is the counterpart of deliverance.”
“Lady, what is the counterpart of Nibbāna?”
“Friend Visākha, you have pushed this line of questioning too far; you were not able to grasp the limit to questions.479 For the holy life, friend Visākha, is grounded upon Nibbāna, culminates in Nibbāna, ends in Nibbāna. If you wish, friend Visākha, go to the Blessed One and ask him about the meaning of this. As the Blessed One explains it to you, so you should remember it.”
2 Likes