A sotāpanna cannot go to the lower realms. He cannot commit kamma that will lead to the lower realms. It is not a “Get out of jail free card” which many with over-estimation believe.. “Hey, I just broke this rule, but I’m still enlightened… therefore the texts are wrong and I’m right!”
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This is one of the greatest questions there is about Dhamma and Enlightenment. Unfortunately the answers are quite interesting and confused. There are a whole heap of people around who think they are enlightened and they sometimes break 5 precepts. So in something doubtful doubt has arisen. I think the answers are in sotapatti samyutta. I think all the samyutta nikaya is the most important nikaya in lots of ways. This has been a question in my mental inbox tray for a long, long time. It needs some thorough research and to be honest that no one seems to know definitely is more than a bit interesting. For myself I think that the 3 refuges and 5 precepts should be unbroken in a sotapanna as I err on the side of caution. I think that makes more sense than the alternative. But just live it and find out for yourself in the meantime.
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Motivated by the vast amounts of ai slop, I have created ai searching tool that is built into TPR and limited to real Pāḷi texts using a hybrid of ai thinking and agentic searching within the TPR search environment. Its results are great when you are not sure what to search for but know how to phrase the question. The TPR AI searching is released for the world to use and available in the official app stores.
Please pay attention to the time spent formatting.. all members should do this.
ariya-kanta sīla = ariyakantasīlāni
In the “thinking” which should be read, the ariyakantasīla was mentioned but didn’t make the cut. That is because the commentary and annya books come last and only 20 search results are sent for evaluation. I looked this word up and found results (the most important), even though it was not in the search results directly
sīlesu paripūrakāritāti ariyakantesu sīlesu paripūrakāritā.
Being one who fulfills the precepts means being one who fulfills the precepts cherished by the noble ones.
ariyakantasīlāni nāma pañcasīlāni.
The precepts cherished by the noble ones are the five precepts.
mūlapaṇṇāsaaṭṭhakathā ¶ p314
Generally speaking.. a person who is a path winner has path factors.
Right speech and right action
sabbesaṃyeva vā etesaṃ sammāvācākammantājīvānaṃ ariyakantasīlattā ariyakantasīlassa ca saddhāhatthena paṭiggahetabbattā tesaṃ atthitāya atthibhāvato saddhindriyasaddhābalachandiddhipādā.
Or, for all these, namely Right Speech, Right Action, and Right Livelihood, because they constitute the morality beloved by the Noble Ones, and because the morality beloved by the Noble Ones is to be grasped by the hand of faith, thus due to their existence, there are the faculty of faith (saddhindriya), the power of faith (saddhābala), and the power of will (chandiddhipāda).
vsm du p143
TPR-AI Below:
Here are the TPR-AI Edited results: (I removed a few quotes)
AI Search Query: “is there anything that says that sotapannas cannot break 5 precepts”
— AI Thinking —
Found 14 relevant results.
Agent Search Log:
Agent started analyzing query: “is there anything that says that sotapannas cannot break 5 precepts”
The canonical position is that a Sotāpanna has abandoned the fetters of self-view (sakkāya-diṭṭhi), skeptical doubt (vicikicchā), and attachment to rites and rituals (sīlabbata-parāmāsa). Consequently, they possess ‘unwavering confidence’ (aveccappasāda) in the Triple Gem and ‘virtues dear to the noble ones’ (ariya-kanta-sīla). Canonical texts, such as the Mahānāma Sutta, explicitly state that a stream-enterer is incapable of breaking the five precepts, as their virtue is unbroken and unspotted.
Kept 14 highly relevant passages.
Search Complete: AI determined all relevant instances have been found.
— Results —
Book: dukādinipātaaṭṭhakathā
Sutta: n/a
Page: 203
“…Thus, two paths and two fruits are taught in terms of sīla. Sotāpannasakadāgāmino hi sīlesu paripūrakārinoti. Indeed, Sotāpannas and Sakadāgāmins are said to be complete…”Book: udānaaṭṭhakathā
Sutta: n/a
Page: 63
“…Alternatively, one who has attained the fruit of Stream-entry is a crosser of the shore in sīla. So hi ‘‘sīlesu paripūrakārī’’ti vutto, sotāpannaggahaṇeneva…”Book: pañcakanipātapāḷi
Sutta: n/a
Page: 186
“…pī.)] , sāriputta, jāneyyātha gihiṃ odātavasanaṃ pañcasu sikkhāpadesu saṃvutakammantaṃ catunnaṃ ābhicetasikānaṃ diṭṭhadhammasukhavihārānaṃ nikāmalābhiṃ akicchalābhiṃ akasiralābhiṃ, so ākaṅkhamāno attanāva attānaṃ byākareyya – ‘khīṇanirayomhi khīṇatiracchānayoni khīṇapettivisayo khīṇāpāyaduggativinipāto, sotāpannohamasmi avinipātadhammo…”Book: navakanipātapāḷi
Sutta: n/a
Page: 207
“…samannāgato hoti, so ākaṅkhamāno attanāva attānaṃ byākareyya – ‘khīṇanirayomhi khīṇatiracchānayoni khīṇapettivisayo khīṇāpāyaduggativinipāto; sotāpannohamasmi avinipātadhammo niyato sambodhiparāyaṇo’’’ti. 28. ‘‘When, bhikkhus, these five fears and enmities have…”Book: dasakanipātapāḷi
Sutta: n/a
Page: 406
“…hoti suppaṭividdho, so ākaṅkhamāno attanāva attānaṃ byākareyya – ‘khīṇanirayomhi khīṇatiracchānayoni khīṇapettivisayo khīṇāpāyaduggativinipāto; sotāpannohamasmi avinipātadhammo niyato sambodhiparāyaṇo’’ti. “When, householder, these five fears and enmities of a…”Book: khuddakapāṭhaaṭṭhakathā
Sutta: n/a
Page: 202
“…Sīlavipatti, diṭṭhivipatti, ācāravipatti, ājīvavipattīti evamādi akaraṇīyaṃ. Violations of sīla, wrong views, misconduct, and improper livelihood, and so on, are things not to be done. Tathā…”
Bhante Subhūti’s Value Added Research Below:
Clicking the verified Search Results We Find Direct Pāḷī Quotes:
sotāpannasakadāgāmino hi sīlesu paripūrakārinoti.
Indeed, Sotāpannas and Sakadāgāmins are said to be complete in sīla.
dukādinipātaaṭṭhakathā
The lines that matter..
atha vā sotāpattiphalādhigamena sīlasmiṃ pāragū.
Alternatively, one who has attained the fruit of Stream-entry is a crosser of the shore in sīla.
so hi ‘‘sīlesu paripūrakārī’’ti vutto, sotāpannaggahaṇeneva cettha sakadāgāmīpi gahito hoti.
For such a one is called “one who fulfills sīla,” and by the inclusion of a Stream-enterer, a Once-returner is also included here.
udānaaṭṭhakathā
9. gihisuttaṃ
9. The Householder Sutta
179. atha kho anāthapiṇḍiko gahapati pañcamattehi upāsakasatehi parivuto yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṃ abhivādetvā ekamantaṃ nisīdi.
Then the householder Anāthapiṇḍika, surrounded by about five hundred lay followers, approached the Blessed One; having approached and paid homage to the Blessed One, he sat down to one side.
atha kho bhagavā āyasmantaṃ sāriputtaṃ āmantesi – ‘‘yaṃ kañci , sāriputta, jāneyyātha gihiṃ odātavasanaṃ pañcasu sikkhāpadesu saṃvutakammantaṃ catunnaṃ ābhicetasikānaṃ diṭṭhadhammasukhavihārānaṃ nikāmalābhiṃ akicchalābhiṃ akasiralābhiṃ, so ākaṅkhamāno attanāva attānaṃ byākareyya – ‘khīṇanirayomhi khīṇatiracchānayoni khīṇapettivisayo khīṇāpāyaduggativinipāto, sotāpannohamasmi avinipātadhammo niyato sambodhiparāyaṇo’’’ti.
Then the Blessed One addressed Venerable Sāriputta: “Sāriputta, if you know any lay follower, clad in white, whose conduct is restrained in the five training rules, and who readily, without difficulty or trouble, obtains the four mental states that are pleasant abiding in this very life, then, if he wishes, he may declare of himself: ‘I am one for whom hell is destroyed, the animal realm is destroyed, the realm of hungry ghosts is destroyed, the states of woe, the bad destinations, the lower realms are destroyed. I am a Stream-Enterer, not subject to falling into states of woe, certain of liberation, with enlightenment as my destination.’”
‘‘katamesu pañcasu sikkhāpadesu saṃvutakammanto hoti?
“In which five training rules is his conduct restrained?
idha, sāriputta, ariyasāvako pāṇātipātā paṭivirato hoti, adinnādānā paṭivirato hoti, kāmesumicchācārā paṭivirato hoti, musāvādā paṭivirato hoti, surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā paṭivirato hoti.
Here, Sāriputta, a noble disciple abstains from the destruction of life, abstains from taking what is not given, abstains from misconduct in sensual pleasures, abstains from false speech, and abstains from distilled and fermented intoxicants which are the basis of heedlessness.
imesu pañcasu sikkhāpadesu saṃvutakammanto hoti.
In these five training rules is his conduct restrained.
pañcakanipātapāḷi
28. ‘‘yato kho, bhikkhave, ariyasāvakassa pañca bhayāni verāni vūpasantāni honti, catūhi ca sotāpattiyaṅgehi samannāgato hoti, so ākaṅkhamāno attanāva attānaṃ byākareyya – ‘khīṇanirayomhi khīṇatiracchānayoni khīṇapettivisayo khīṇāpāyaduggativinipāto; sotāpannohamasmi avinipātadhammo niyato sambodhiparāyaṇo’’’ti.
28. ‘‘When, bhikkhus, these five fears and enmities have subsided for a noble disciple, and he is endowed with these four factors of stream-entry, then, if he wishes, he may declare of himself: ‘I am one for whom hell is destroyed, for whom the animal realm is destroyed, for whom the realm of hungry ghosts is destroyed, for whom the states of woe, the bad destinations, are destroyed; I am a stream-enterer, not subject to falling into states of woe, assured, bound for enlightenment.’’’
‘‘katamāni pañca bhayāni verāni vūpasantāni honti?
‘‘What are the five fears and enmities that have subsided?
yaṃ, bhikkhave, pāṇātipātī pāṇātipātapaccayā diṭṭhadhammikampi bhayaṃ veraṃ pasavati, samparāyikampi bhayaṃ veraṃ pasavati, cetasikampi dukkhaṃ domanassaṃ paṭisaṃvedeti, pāṇātipātā paṭivirato…pe… evaṃ taṃ bhayaṃ veraṃ vūpasantaṃ hoti.
Bhikkhus, when one who takes life, because of taking life, generates fear and enmity in this present life, and generates fear and enmity in the future life, and experiences mental suffering and distress; when one abstains from taking life…(thus)…that fear and enmity has subsided.
‘‘yaṃ, bhikkhave, adinnādāyī…pe… surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhāyī surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānapaccayā diṭṭhadhammikampi bhayaṃ veraṃ pasavati, samparāyikampi bhayaṃ veraṃ pasavati, cetasikampi dukkhaṃ domanassaṃ paṭisaṃvedeti, surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā paṭivirato neva diṭṭhadhammikampi bhayaṃ veraṃ pasavati, na samparāyikampi bhayaṃ veraṃ pasavati, na cetasikampi dukkhaṃ domanassaṃ paṭisaṃvedeti.
‘‘Bhikkhus, when one who takes what is not given…(thus)…when one who indulges in distilled and fermented liquors, which are a cause for heedlessness, because of indulging in distilled and fermented liquors, which are a cause for heedlessness, generates fear and enmity in this present life, and generates fear and enmity in the future life, and experiences mental suffering and distress; when one abstains from indulging in distilled and fermented liquors, which are a cause for heedlessness, one does not generate fear and enmity in this present life, nor does one generate fear and enmity in the future life, nor does one experience mental suffering and distress.
surāmerayamajjapamādaṭṭhānā paṭiviratassa evaṃ taṃ bhayaṃ veraṃ vūpasantaṃ hoti.
For one who abstains from indulging in distilled and fermented liquors, which are a cause for heedlessness, that fear and enmity has thus subsided.
imāni pañca bhayāni verāni vūpasantāni honti.
These are the five fears and enmities that have subsided.
navakanipātapāḷi
‘‘yato kho, gahapati, ariyasāvakassa imāni pañca bhayāni verāni vūpasantāni honti, imehi ca catūhi sotāpattiyaṅgehi samannāgato hoti, ayañcassa ariyo ñāyo paññāya sudiṭṭho hoti suppaṭividdho, so ākaṅkhamāno attanāva attānaṃ byākareyya – ‘khīṇanirayomhi khīṇatiracchānayoni khīṇapettivisayo khīṇāpāyaduggativinipāto; sotāpannohamasmi avinipātadhammo niyato sambodhiparāyaṇo’’ti.
“When, householder, these five fears and enmities of a noble disciple are allayed, and he is endowed with these four factors of Stream-entry, and this noble knowledge has been seen well and penetrated well by him with wisdom, then, if he wishes, he can declare of himself: ‘I am one for whom hell is destroyed, for whom the animal realm is destroyed, for whom the realm of hungry ghosts is destroyed, for whom the planes of misery, the bad destinations, are destroyed; I am a Stream-enterer, not subject to downfall, certain, bound for enlightenment.’”
dasakanipātapāḷi
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The next step in logic chess is if a sotapanna doesn’t keep 5 precepts would an arahanta keep them? The extension of the same. Angulimala comes to mind and his declaration of truth.
"The Buddha, out of kindness to Angulimala, taught him a verse of truth:
“Since I was born with the noble birth, I have never intentionally killed a living being. By this truth may you and the infant in your womb be safe!'”
He used this verse of truth when one woman was undergoing a difficult childbirth. This helped the woman give birth easily.
Soon, reciting this verse to others would help them to give birth easily as well. With this, the people gained faith in Ven. Angulimala and so didn’t harm him like before. "
To counter that example, here is a quote from the Ratana Sutta. However, “evil deed” (kamma karoti pāpakaṃ) does not mean it is breaking the 5 precepts.
kiñcāpi so kamma karoti pāpakaṃ, kāyena vācā uda cetasā vā;
Even if he commits some evil deed, by body, speech, or mind;
abhabba so tassa paṭicchadāya , abhabbatā diṭṭhapadassa vuttā;
He is incapable of concealing it, for the one who has seen the path, such incapability is declared;
idampi saṅghe ratanaṃ paṇītaṃ, etena saccena suvatthi hotu.
This precious jewel is in the Saṅgha; by this truth, may there be well-being!
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