# Momentariness and understanding

**URL:** <https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92>\
**Category:** Interesting Threads\
**Created:** [April 3, 2022, 4:19am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92 "2022-04-03T04:19:05Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 16\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\
**Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/21 "2023-05-19T13:28:29Z")

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Nina Van Gorkom

> Some people separate pariyatti from pa.tipatti which they see as something that is not part of their normal daily life, as something particular they have to be engaged in. They forget that when they study  
> the theory, pariyatti, they should study with the aim to understand the reality that appears at this  
> moment.  
> One should study in order to understand that any reality of this moment is dhamma, be it
> 
> > seeing or hearing, but one never knew before that it was dhamma. Thus, people should study with the  
> > aim to correctly understand that naama dhamma at this moment is the reality that experiences, the  
> > element that experiences. Naama dhamma is not theory, but there is naama dhamma while we are  
> > seeing now. One may have heard and understood that seeing at this moment is naama dhamma,  
> > because it is a reality that experiences something, but the expression “the reality that experiences” is  
> > most difficult to understand and to penetrate. When one sees, there is something that is appearing  
> > through the eyes, but the reality of naama that sees does not appear. Only when its characteristic  
> > appears, it can be known as an element or a kind of dhamma that is real.  
> > When people have understood this, they know that what is appearing through the eyes at this moment  
> > could not appear if there would not be naama dhamma that has arisen and sees that object. One can  
> > gradually understand that seeing at this moment is dhamma. Therefore, when one studies the Dhamma  
> > one studies with the purpose to have right understanding of the characteristics of realities that are the  
> > truth of each moment in daily life. This can be a condition for sati to arise and to be aware and in this  
> > way one will gradually understand that when one sees at this moment, it is a reality, an element that  
> > experiences, or when one hears, that it is an element experiencing sound.  
> > People who listened at the time when the Sammaasambuddha had not yet finally passed away, could  
> > understand immediately the characteristics of naama and ruupa. The reason was that they had  
> > developed understanding, that they had listened and considered what they had learnt to a great extent.  
> > When we read the life stories of those people we see that, before they could realize the four noble  
> > truths at the moment of enlightenment, they had to study and listen a great deal during many lives, so  
> > that they could become bahussuta. A person who is bahussuta (bahu is much, and suta is heard) is  
> > someone who has listened and studied a great deal in order to understand realities. As Khun Nipat has  
> > said, at that time there were no books.  
> > Therefore, people listened with understanding and they did not think of textbooks or different subjects  
> > written down in books. They heard about realities that were appearing, they could investigate and  
> > understand them immediately. Their study was based on listening and considering, they knew that what  
> > they heard concerned the reality appearing at that very moment.  
> > When the Buddha asked whether seeing was permanent or impermanent, they answered,  
> > “impermanent”. They did not memorize this from a textbook, but seeing was performing the function of  
> > seeing, and the pa~n~naa they had developed was the condition for understanding the truth of the  
> > reality at that moment.

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**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\
**Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:20am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/22 "2023-09-28T04:20:38Z")

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[SuttaCentral](https://suttacentral.net/mn148/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false)

**the ChachakkaSutta:**

> “If anyone should say, ‘Feeling is self,’ that is not tenable. For an  
> arising and a falling away of feeling are discerned. Since its  
> arising and falling away are discerned, the consequence would  
> follow: ‘My self arises and falls away.’ Therefore it is not tenable  
> to say, ‘Feeling is self.’ Thus feeling is non-self”

[…]

> If anyone says, ‘The mind is self,’ that is not tenable. The rise and fall of the mind are discerned, and since its rise and fall are discerned, it would follow: ‘My self rises and falls.’ That is why it is not tenable for anyone to say, ‘The mind is self.’ Thus the mind is not self.
> 
> (MN 148/M III  
> 283)

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**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 9:50am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/23 "2023-11-13T09:50:06Z")

</div>

In the Book of Causation **(Nidaanavagga)** VII The Great Subchapter 61  
(1) Uninstructed (1) p. 595 **Samyutta Nikaya** Vol 1 (translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi)  
"

> But that which is called ‘mind’ and ‘mentality’ and consciousness’  
> arises as one thing and ceases as another by day and by night. Just  
> as a monkey roaming through a forest grabs hold of one branch, lets  
> that go and grabs another, then lets that go and grabs still  
> another, so too that which is called ‘mind’ and ‘mentality’  
> and ‘consciousness’ arises as one thing and ceases as another by day  
> and by night. [note 157]  
> "  
> [note 157: Spk: 'By day and by night (rattiyaa ca divasassa ca):  
> This is a genitive in the locative sense, i.e., during the night and  
> during the day. Arises as one thing and ceases as another (annadeva  
> uppajjati, anna.m nirujjhati): The meaning is that (the mind) that  
> arises and ceases during the day is other than (the mind) that  
> arises and ceases during the night. The statement should not be  
> taken to mean that one thing arises and some thing altogether  
> different, which had not arisen, ceases. “Day and night” is said by  
> way of continuity, taking a continuity of lesser duration than the  
> previous one (i.e. the one stated for the body). **But one citta is  
> not able to endure for a whole day or a whole night. Even in the  
> time of a fingersnap many hundred thousand kotis of cittas arise and  
> cease (1 koti=10 million)**.

For each and every occurence of these instantaneous elements, khandhas, many conditions need to come together. And each of these conditions are equally brief and conditioned. It is actually amazing everytime we see or hear something, a little miracle, considering the brevity and the confluence of conditions needed for them to arise.

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**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\
**Post date:** [November 13, 2023, 9:53am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/24 "2023-11-13T09:53:39Z")

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> spk (see above post) But one citta is  
> not able to endure for a whole day or a whole night. Even in the  
> time of a fingersnap many hundred thousand kotis of cittas arise and  
> cease (1 koti=10 million)

From the **Commentary to the Katthavathu** (Kathavatthuppakarana-Atthakatha) the heretical Andhakas thought citta could last much longer.(p.69 Bimala Law Pali text society)  
II V

> Now follows the controversy on **‘duration of consciousness.’**  
> Some, for instance, now the Andhakas, whose secession is  
> narrated above, hold that, judging by the apparent continuity  
> both of overt consciousness in jhana and of sub-consciousness  
> a single state of consciousness lasted for a length of time.

> In order to correct this view, the Sakavadin asks: “Does a  
> single (unit of) consciousness last even for a day ?” The  
> opponent assents. “Does one-half of the day belong to the  
> moment of arising?” is asked, not considering the dura-  
> tion of a moment, but because of the expression 'origin and  
> decay 'at the end of the teaching: ‘all conditioned things are  
> impermanent and subject to origin and decay.’

> Being asked: “Do these things come and go more quickly  
> than mind ?” he rejects, because he does not see any things  
> which come and go more quickly than mind. Being asked  
> again, he assents in respect of that state of consciousness which  
> he considers to have lasted for a length of time. With regard  
> to the question: ’ Does any unit of consciousness last one’s  
> whole lifetime ?‘’ he denies it in all places excepting the Arupa  
> plane, because of the expression "the devas of air last up  
> to 80,000 aeons in life,‘’ but he assents in the case of those  
> who are in the Arupa plane.

> “Does then the mind of the devas who have reached the  
> Arupa plane arise and cease moment by moment ?” is asked  
> . by the opponent. (The Sakaviidin) assents, because he fears  
> lest it would contradict the Suttas: “Subject to origin and decay,” and so forth.  
> He however maintains its duration through his own view.

> The rest here is clear in meaning  
> The controversy about the duration of consciousness  
> is ended.

This pdf has the three pages from Points of Controversy from the translation by Aung and Davids and although much older is probably a clearer translation than the above one by Law.  
[kathavathu duration of consciousness.pdf](https://classicaltheravada.org/uploads/short-url/hfStlxxda1B1TtxQQsyRqMwbhO3.pdf) (369.6 KB)

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**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\
**Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/25 "2023-11-26T02:28:31Z")

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[https://suttacentral.net/mn10/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin](https://suttacentral.net/mn10/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin)

> observing the body as liable to **originate** , as liable to **vanish,** and as liable to both **originate and vanish**.
> 
> samudayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṁ viharati, vayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṁ viharati, samudayavayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṁ viharati.

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**Post date:** [November 26, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/26 "2023-11-26T02:50:30Z")

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\*Saṁyutta Nikāya  
\*Connected Discourses on the Six Sense Bases

# 35.93. The Dyad (2)

> “Bhikkhus, consciousness comes to be in dependence on a dyad. And how, bhikkhus, does consciousness come to be in dependence on a dyad? In dependence on the eye and forms there arises eye-consciousness. The eye is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise; forms are impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. Thus this dyad is moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.
> 
> “Eye-consciousness is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of eye-consciousness is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, eye-consciousness has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

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**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\
**Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 4:09am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/27 "2024-04-19T04:09:09Z")

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[https://suttacentral.net/dn15/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false](https://suttacentral.net/dn15/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false)  
\*

> \*\* DN 15 Ānanda, on the occasion when one experiences a pleasant feeling one does not, on that same occasion, experience a painful feeling or a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling; on that occasion one experiences only a pleasant feeling. On the occasion when one experiences a painful feeling one does not, on that same occasion, experience a pleasant feeling or a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling; on that occasion one experiences only a painful feeling. On the occasion when one experiences a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling one does not, on that same occasion, experience a pleasant feeling or a painful feeling; on that occasion one experiences only a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling."\*\*\* -

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**Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 4:21am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/28 "2024-04-19T04:21:29Z")

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- 

Saṁyutta Nikāya

- Connected Discourses on the Six Sense Bases

# 35.93. The Dyad (2)

“Bhikkhus, consciousness comes to be in dependence on a dyad. And how, bhikkhus, does consciousness come to be in dependence on a dyad? In dependence on the eye and forms there arises eye-consciousness. The eye is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise; forms are impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. Thus this dyad is moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“Eye-consciousness is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of eye-consciousness is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, eye-consciousness has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

“The meeting, the encounter, the concurrence of these three things is called eye-contact. Eye-contact too is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of eye-contact is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, eye-contact has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

“Contacted, bhikkhus, one feels, contacted one intends, contacted one perceives. Thus these things too are moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“In dependence on the ear and sounds there arises ear-consciousness … … In dependence on the mind and mental phenomena there arises mind-consciousness. The mind is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise; mental phenomena are impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. Thus this dyad is moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“Mind-consciousness is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of mind-consciousness is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, mind-consciousness has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

“The meeting, the encounter, the concurrence of these three things is called mind-contact. Mind-contact too is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of mind-contact is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, mind-contact has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

“Contacted, bhikkhus, one feels, contacted one intends, contacted one perceives. Thus these things too are moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“It is in such a way, bhikkhus, that consciousness comes to be in dependence on a dyad.”

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**Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 10:16am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/29 "2024-04-19T10:16:36Z")

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> “And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness? There is the case where feelings are known to the monk as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Perceptions are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness.
> 
> “And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents? There is the case where a monk remains focused on arising & falling away with reference to the five clinging-aggregates: ‘Such is form, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is feeling, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is perception, such its origination, such its passing away. Such are fabrications, such their origination, such their passing away. Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.’ This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents.  
> [https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.41/4](https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.41/4)

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**Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 3:46am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/30 "2024-04-20T03:46:20Z")

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From the Abhdihamma Vibhanga:  
The Book of Analysis p.115

> Therein what is mind element? **Immediately after the cessation**  
> of the eye-consciousness-element that has arisen there arises con-  
> sciousness, mind, ideation, heart, lucence, mind, mind base,  
> controlling faculty of mind, consciousness, the aggregate of con-  
> sciousness; and, depending on the aforesaid, mind element.  
> Ear-consciousness-element. :P: Nose-consciousness-element. :P:  
> Tongue-consciousness-element. :P: \*\*Immediately after the cessa- \*\*  
> \*\*tion of the body-consciousness-element that has arisen there arises \*\*  
> **consciousness, mind, ideation, heart, lucence, mind, mind base** ,  
> controlling faculty of mind, consciousness, the aggregate of  
> consciousness ; [89] and, depending on the aforesaid, mind element ;  
> also (at the time of) first advertence in all states there arises con-  
> sciousness, mind, ideation, heart, lucence, mind, mind base,  
> controlling faculty of mind, consciousness, the aggregate of con-  
> sciousness; and, depending on the aforesaid, mind element. \*\*This is \*\*  
> **called mind element. (16)**

> Vibhanga 88: tattha katamad manodhatu? cakkhuviiidnadhatuya uppajjitva **niruddhasamanantara** uppajjati cittam mano mdnasam hadayam pandaram mano mandyatanam manindrivam viniidnam  
> viinadnakkhandho… , tajja manodhatu; sabbadhammesu va pana pathamasamannahdaro, ayam  
> vuccati manodhatu. (Cf. Dhs § 566).

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**Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 3:50am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/31 "2024-04-20T03:50:47Z")

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> [@RobertK](#):
>
> niruddhasamanantara

- **Niruddha** : Means “ceased”
- **Samanantara** : “immediately after”

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**Post date:** [October 11, 2025, 3:07am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/32 "2025-10-11T03:07:52Z")

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Bhikkhu Bodhi, The Connected Discourses of the Buddha, p. 951).

> “Suppose, bhikkhus, that a magician or a magician’s apprentice would display a magical illusion at a crossroads. A man with good sight would inspect it, ponder it, and carefully investigate it, and it would appear to him to be void, hollow, insubstantial. For what substance could there be in a magical illusion? So too, bhikkhus, whatever kind of consciousness there is…it would appear to him to be void, hollow, insubstantial. For what substance could there be in consciousness?”
> 
> “Spk: Consciousness is like a magical illusion (maya) in the sense that it is insubstantial and cannot be grasped. Consciousness is **even more transient** and fleeting than a magical illusion. For it gives the impression that a person comes and goes, stands and sits, with the same mind, but the mind is different in each of these activities. Consciousness deceives the multitude like a magical illusion.”

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**Post date:** [October 11, 2025, 3:10am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/33 "2025-10-11T03:10:34Z")

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Vism.

> VIII 39. 8. As to the shortness of the moment: in the ultimate sense the life-moment of living beings is extremely short, being only as much as the occurrence of a single conscious moment. Just as a chariot wheel, when it is rolling, rolls [that is, touches the ground] only on one point of [the circumference of] its tire, and, when it is at rest, rests only on one point, so too, the life of living beings lasts only for a single conscious moment. When that consciousness has ceased, the being is said to have ceased, according as it is said: “In a past conscious moment he did live, not he does live, not he will live. In a future conscious moment not he did live, not he does live, he will live. In the present conscious moment not he did live, he does live, not he will live.”

tika note 11

> “‘Person’ (atta-bháva) is the states other than the already-mentioned life, feeling  
> and consciousness. The words ‘just these alone’ mean that it is unmixed with self (attá) or permanence” (Vism-mhþ 242). Atta-bháva as used in the Suttas and in this work is more or less a synonym for sakkáya in the sense of person (body and mind) or personality, or individual form.

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**Post date:** [October 11, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/34 "2025-10-11T15:12:35Z")

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It is amazing that people never think about digital images for seeing motion even though they all know how video or even film movies work.

Without momentariness, we would not see motion. We would be frozen in our vision limited to a single picture frame in our minds.

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**Post date:** [December 14, 2025, 12:40pm UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/35 "2025-12-14T12:40:48Z")

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> [note 157: Spk: 'By day and by night (rattiyaa ca divasassa ca):  
> This is a genitive in the locative sense, i.e., during the night and  
> during the day. Arises as one thing and ceases as another (annadeva  
> uppajjati, anna.m nirujjhati): The meaning is that (the mind) that  
> arises and ceases during the day is other than (the mind) that  
> arises and ceases during the night. **The statement should not be  
> taken to mean that one thing arises and some thing altogether  
> different, which had not arisen, ceases**. “Day and night” is said by  
> way of continuity, taking a continuity of lesser duration than the  
> previous one (i.e. the one stated for the body). But one citta is  
> not able to endure for a whole day or a whole night.

I add an expanded version of the Pali and English translation line by line (assisted by ChatGPT)

> Aññadeva uppajjati, aññaṃ nirujjhatīti.  
> Yaṃ rattiṃ uppajjati ca nirujjhati ca, tato aññadeva divā uppajjati ca nirujjhati cāti attho.
> 
> “Just another indeed arises; another ceases.”  
> The meaning is this: that which arises and ceases at night— from that, just another indeed arises and ceases during the day.
> 
> Aññaṃ uppajjati, anuppannameva aññaṃ nirujjhatīti evaṃ pana attho na gahetabbo.
> 
> **But the meaning should not be taken thus: “One arises, and another—which has not arisen at all—ceases.”**
> 
> ‘‘Rattiyā ca divasassa cā’’ti idaṃ purimapaveṇito parittakaṃ paveṇiṃ gahetvā paveṇivaseneva vuttaṃ, ekarattiṃ pana ekadivasaṃ vā ekameva cittaṃ ṭhātuṃ samatthaṃ nāma natthi.
> 
> The expression “of night and of day” is said by taking a small continuity from the preceding continuity and speaking purely in terms of continuity; however, there is no single citta at all that is capable of enduring for one whole night or for one whole day.  
> Ekasmiñhi accharākkhaṇe anekāni cittakoṭisatasahassāni uppajjanti.  
> For in a single snap of the fingers, many hundreds of thousands of crores of cittas arise.  
> Vuttampi cetaṃ Milindapañhe —
> 
> And this, too, is said in the Milindapañha:
> 
> ‘‘Vāhasataṃ kho, mahārāja, vīhīnaṃ, aḍḍhacūḷañca vāhā, vīhisattambaṇāni, dve ca tumbā, ekaccharākkhaṇe pavattassa cittassa ettakā vīhī lakkhaṃ ṭhapīyamānā parikkhayaṃ pariyādānaṃ gaccheyyu’’nti.
> 
> “O King, a hundred cart-loads of rice, together with half a cūḷa-load, seven ambanas of rice, and two tumbas—if this much rice were laid out as a measuring mark for a citta occurring in a single snap of the fingers—it would go to exhaustion, to complete consumption.”

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**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2026, 2:09am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/momentariness-and-understanding/92/36 "2026-06-12T02:09:57Z")

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> Question: I do believe that there are momentary states (or at least the phenomenon can be analyzed that precisely), however, why can’t there also be LONG lasting states? For example, why can’t one be angry (dosa-mula-citta) for basically the whole day? Of course one can.

Well that belief is due to the continuity of the stream of arising and passing away of the elements. It is by learning to see that each moment is different that insight grows. Now there is seeing, cakkhu vinnana, and that is a completely different than hearing, sota vinnana, for instance. Of course they have the same general function of experiencing an object which is why it seems that it is the same consciousness.

Your example of feeling angry for the day: we can start to distinguish that a moment of seeing or hearing is different from the moments thinking about that ‘bad person who did wrong’. And if that understanding can grow then life will be very different - hard to keep the anger when it is seen that there are really only moments and that what we are angry about is actually merely a concept, an idea that citta takes as object. We won’t be so fooled by the mirages.

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