Momentariness and understanding

[RobertK]

Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso: Upon the Tip of a Needle

Translated by Andrew Olendzki.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak … .olen.html

1. "Life, personhood, pleasure and pain

• This is all that’s bound together
  In a single mental event- A moment that quickly takes place.

2. Even for the devas who endure
   For 84,000 thousand kalpas

• Even those do not live the same
  For any two moments of the mind.

3. What ceases for one who is dead,
   Or for one who’s still standing here,
   Are all just the same heaps

• Gone, never to connect again.

4. The states which are vanishing now,
   And those which will vanish some day,
   Have characteristics no different
   Than those which have vanished before.

5. With no production there’s no birth;
   With “becoming” present, one exists.
   When grasped with the highest meaning,
   The world is dead when the mind stops.

6. There’s no hoarding what has vanished,
   No piling up for the future;
   Those who have been born are standing
   Like a seed upon a needle.

7. The vanishing of all these states
   That have become is not welcome,
   Though dissolving phenomena stand
   Uncombined through primordial time.

8. From the unseen, things come and go.
   Glimpsed only as they’re passing by;
   Like lightning flashing in the sky

• They arise and then pass away."

Kathaṃ ṭhitiparittatāya appakaṃ jīvitaṃ? Atīte cittakkhaṇe jīvittha,
na jīvati na jīvissati; anāgate cittakkhaṇe jīvissati, na jīvati na jīvittha; paccuppanne cittakkhaṇe jīvati, na jīvittha na jīvissati.

“Jīvitaṃ attabhāvo ca, sukhadukkhā ca kevalā;
ekacittasamāyuttā, lahuso vattate khaṇo.
“Cullāsītisahassāni, kappā tiṭṭhanti ye marū;
natveva tepi jīvanti, dvīhi cittehi saṃyutā.
“Ye niruddhā marantassa, tiṭṭhamānassa vā idha;
sabbepi sadisā khandhā, gatā appaṭisandhikā.
“Anantarā ca ye bhaggā, ye ca bhaggā anāgatā;
tadantare niruddhānaṃ, vesamaṃ natthi lakkhaṇe.
“Anibbattena na jāto, paccuppannena jīvati;
cittabhaggā mato loko, paññatti paramatthiyā.
“Yathā ninnā pavattanti, chandena pariṇāmitā;
acchinnadhārā vattanti, saḷāyatanapaccayā.
“Anidhānagatā bhaggā, puñjo natthi anāgate;
nibbattā ye ca tiṭṭhanti, āragge sāsapūpamā.
“Nibbattānañca dhammānaṃ, bhaṅgo nesaṃ purakkhato;
palokadhammā tiṭṭhanti, purāṇehi amissitā.
“Adassanato āyanti, bhaṅgā gacchanti dassanaṃ;
vijjuppādova ākāse, uppajjanti vayanti cā”ti.

Evaṃ ṭhitiparittatāya appakaṃ jīvitaṃ.

[RobertK]

Some more sutta references:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak … .than.html
Loka Sutta: The World

Then a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to the Blessed One: "‘The world, the world’[1] it is said. In what respect does the word ‘world’ apply?

"Insofar as it disintegrates,[2] monk, it is called the ‘world.’ Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.

"The ear disintegrates. Sounds disintegrate…

"The nose disintegrates. Aromas disintegrate…

"The tongue disintegrates. Tastes disintegrate…

"The body disintegrates. Tactile sensations disintegrate…

"The intellect disintegrates. Ideas disintegrate. Consciousness at the intellect consciousness disintegrates. Contact at the intellect disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.

“Insofar as it disintegrates, it is called the ‘world.’”

Notes
1.
Loka — also “cosmos.”
2.
Lujjati.

[RobertK]

At Savatthi. “Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu should dwell mindful and clearly comprehending. This is our instruction to you.

“And how, bhikkhus, is a bhikkhu mindful? Here, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu dwells contemplating the body in the body … feelings in feelings … mind in mind … phenomena in phenomena, ardent, clearly comprehending, mindful, having removed covetousness and displeasure in regard to the world. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that a bhikkhu is mindful.

“And how, bhikkhus, does a bhikkhu exercise clear comprehension? Here, bhikkhus, for a bhikkhu feelings are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away. Thoughts are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away. Perceptions are understood as they arise, understood as they remain present, understood as they pass away. It is in this way, bhikkhus, that a bhikkhu exercises clear comprehension.
>
“Bhikkhus, a bhikkhu should dwell mindful and clearly comprehending. This is our instruction to you.”
SuttaCentral

[RobertK]

I include this sutta with Commentary note highlighted as it mentions succession of the aggregates. While we might think a self is born and dies and is reborn actually there is only this succession…
From SN 15.1:

Bhikkhus, this Samsara is without discoverable beginning.254 A first point is not discerned of beings roaming and wandering on hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving. Suppose, bhikkhus, a man would cut up whatever grass, sticks, branches, and foliage there are in this Jambudıpa and collect them together into a single heap. Having done so, he would put them down, saying [for each one]: ‘This is my mother, this my mother’s mother.’ The sequence of that man’s mothers and grandmothers would not come to an end, yet the grass, wood, branches, and foliage in this Jambudıpa would be used up and exhausted. For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, this sa˙s›ra is without discoverable beginning.

And Commentary note:

Anamataggo ’yam bhikkhave samsaro. Spk resolves anamatagga into anu amatagga, explaining: “Even if it should be pursued by knowledge for a hundred or a thousand years, it would be with unthought-of beginning, with unknown beginning (vassasatam vassasahassam ñanena anugantva pi amataggo aviditaggo). It wouldn’t be possible to know its beginning from here or from there; the meaning is that it is without a delimiting first or last point. Samsara is the uninterruptedly occurring succession of the aggregates, etc. (khandhadinam avicchinnappavatta patipati).

[bksubhuti]

I still don’t understand how this relates to the title you added.

[RobertK]

@bksubhuti

I still don’t understand how this relates to the title you added

Dear Venerable
yes it is a bit oblique. I actually needed a place to park this excellent phrase and thought this will do for the time being.
There is a relation though: samsara is simply a stream of moments only one arising at a time before falling away. And as you explain in your helpful book Abhidhamma Book Comparing Abhidhamma and Computers) there can only be one at a time.
So when there is understanding of a moment or series of moments this is also understanding samsara…

[bksubhuti]

Well this could go on with many ways… This DhpA story talks about how short the life of a human is compared to the Devas .

Book IV. Flowers, Puppha Vagga
Patipūjikāyavatthu (48)

IV. 4. Husband-Honorer (click link)

One day she gave alms, rendered honor to the monks, {1.364} listened to the Law, and kept the precepts, and at the end of that day died of some sudden sickness and was reborn with her former husband. During all that time the other celestial nymphs were decking the god with flowers. When the god Garland-wearer saw her, he said, “We have not seen you since morning. Where have you been?” “I passed from this existence, husband.” “What say you?” “Precisely so, husband.” “Where were you reborn?” “In a family of station at Sāvatthi.” “How long a time did you remain there?”

“At the end of the tenth lunar month I issued from the womb of my mother. When I was sixteen years old, I married into another family. I bore four sons, gave alms, and rendered honor to the monks, making an Earnest Wish to return and be reborn with you, husband.” “How long is the life of men?” “Only a hundred years.” “So short as that?” “Yes, husband.” “If men are reborn with so short a time as that to live, do they spend their time asleep and heedless, or do they give alms and render honor?” “What say you, husband? Men are ever heedless, as if reborn with an incalculable number of years to live, as if in no wise subject to old age and death.”

[Ontheway]

This will stir up a sense of urgency indeed…

[bksubhuti]

I wonder if we should build on a separate topic… but…Here is a quote from my daily readings from the saṃyutta saḷāyatana book.
Link is here

It should be noted, that while “Khaṇa” is translated as “opportunity”, it is really a word normally meant to denote momentary. So the opportunity is really just a rare moment in time.

2. Khaṇasuttaṃ

Opportunity

“Lābhā vo, bhikkhave, suladdhaṃ vo, bhikkhave,
“You’re fortunate, mendicants, so very fortunate,

khaṇo vo paṭiladdho brahmacariyavāsāya.
to have the opportunity to live the spiritual life.

[RobertK]

MN 111

The Blessed One said, "Monks, Sariputta is wise, of great discernment, deep discernment, wide… joyous… rapid… quick… penetrating discernment. For half a month, Sariputta clearly saw insight[1] into mental qualities one after another. This is what occurred to Sariputta through insight into mental qualities one after another:

"There was the case where Sariputta — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful qualities — entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Whatever qualities there are in the first jhana — directed thought, evaluation, rapture, pleasure, singleness of mind, contact, feeling, perception, intention, consciousness,[2] desire, decision, persistence, mindfulness, equanimity, & attention — he ferreted them out one after another. Known to him they arose, known to him they remained, known to him they subsided. He discerned, ‘So this is how these qualities, not having been, come into play. Having been, they vanish.’

[RobertK]

Nina Van Gorkom

Some people separate pariyatti from pa.tipatti which they see as something that is not part of their normal daily life, as something particular they have to be engaged in. They forget that when they study
the theory, pariyatti, they should study with the aim to understand the reality that appears at this
moment.
One should study in order to understand that any reality of this moment is dhamma, be it

seeing or hearing, but one never knew before that it was dhamma. Thus, people should study with the
aim to correctly understand that naama dhamma at this moment is the reality that experiences, the
element that experiences. Naama dhamma is not theory, but there is naama dhamma while we are
seeing now. One may have heard and understood that seeing at this moment is naama dhamma,
because it is a reality that experiences something, but the expression “the reality that experiences” is
most difficult to understand and to penetrate. When one sees, there is something that is appearing
through the eyes, but the reality of naama that sees does not appear. Only when its characteristic
appears, it can be known as an element or a kind of dhamma that is real.
When people have understood this, they know that what is appearing through the eyes at this moment
could not appear if there would not be naama dhamma that has arisen and sees that object. One can
gradually understand that seeing at this moment is dhamma. Therefore, when one studies the Dhamma
one studies with the purpose to have right understanding of the characteristics of realities that are the
truth of each moment in daily life. This can be a condition for sati to arise and to be aware and in this
way one will gradually understand that when one sees at this moment, it is a reality, an element that
experiences, or when one hears, that it is an element experiencing sound.
People who listened at the time when the Sammaasambuddha had not yet finally passed away, could
understand immediately the characteristics of naama and ruupa. The reason was that they had
developed understanding, that they had listened and considered what they had learnt to a great extent.
When we read the life stories of those people we see that, before they could realize the four noble
truths at the moment of enlightenment, they had to study and listen a great deal during many lives, so
that they could become bahussuta. A person who is bahussuta (bahu is much, and suta is heard) is
someone who has listened and studied a great deal in order to understand realities. As Khun Nipat has
said, at that time there were no books.
Therefore, people listened with understanding and they did not think of textbooks or different subjects
written down in books. They heard about realities that were appearing, they could investigate and
understand them immediately. Their study was based on listening and considering, they knew that what
they heard concerned the reality appearing at that very moment.
When the Buddha asked whether seeing was permanent or impermanent, they answered,
“impermanent”. They did not memorize this from a textbook, but seeing was performing the function of
seeing, and the pa~n~naa they had developed was the condition for understanding the truth of the
reality at that moment.

[RobertK]

SuttaCentral

the ChachakkaSutta:

“If anyone should say, ‘Feeling is self,’ that is not tenable. For an
arising and a falling away of feeling are discerned. Since its
arising and falling away are discerned, the consequence would
follow: ‘My self arises and falls away.’ Therefore it is not tenable
to say, ‘Feeling is self.’ Thus feeling is non-self”

[…]

If anyone says, ‘The mind is self,’ that is not tenable. The rise and fall of the mind are discerned, and since its rise and fall are discerned, it would follow: ‘My self rises and falls.’ That is why it is not tenable for anyone to say, ‘The mind is self.’ Thus the mind is not self.

(MN 148/M III
283)

[RobertK]

In the Book of Causation (Nidaanavagga) VII The Great Subchapter 61
(1) Uninstructed (1) p. 595 Samyutta Nikaya Vol 1 (translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"

But that which is called ‘mind’ and ‘mentality’ and consciousness’
arises as one thing and ceases as another by day and by night. Just
as a monkey roaming through a forest grabs hold of one branch, lets
that go and grabs another, then lets that go and grabs still
another, so too that which is called ‘mind’ and ‘mentality’
and ‘consciousness’ arises as one thing and ceases as another by day
and by night. [note 157]
"
[note 157: Spk: 'By day and by night (rattiyaa ca divasassa ca):
This is a genitive in the locative sense, i.e., during the night and
during the day. Arises as one thing and ceases as another (annadeva
uppajjati, anna.m nirujjhati): The meaning is that (the mind) that
arises and ceases during the day is other than (the mind) that
arises and ceases during the night. The statement should not be
taken to mean that one thing arises and some thing altogether
different, which had not arisen, ceases. “Day and night” is said by
way of continuity, taking a continuity of lesser duration than the
previous one (i.e. the one stated for the body). But one citta is
not able to endure for a whole day or a whole night. Even in the
time of a fingersnap many hundred thousand kotis of cittas arise and
cease (1 koti=10 million).

For each and every occurence of these instantaneous elements, khandhas, many conditions need to come together. And each of these conditions are equally brief and conditioned. It is actually amazing everytime we see or hear something, a little miracle, considering the brevity and the confluence of conditions needed for them to arise.

[RobertK]

spk (see above post) But one citta is
not able to endure for a whole day or a whole night. Even in the
time of a fingersnap many hundred thousand kotis of cittas arise and
cease (1 koti=10 million)

From the Commentary to the Katthavathu (Kathavatthuppakarana-Atthakatha) the heretical Andhakas thought citta could last much longer.(p.69 Bimala Law Pali text society)
II V

Now follows the controversy on ‘duration of consciousness.’
Some, for instance, now the Andhakas, whose secession is
narrated above, hold that, judging by the apparent continuity
both of overt consciousness in jhana and of sub-consciousness
a single state of consciousness lasted for a length of time.

In order to correct this view, the Sakavadin asks: “Does a
single (unit of) consciousness last even for a day ?” The
opponent assents. “Does one-half of the day belong to the
moment of arising?” is asked, not considering the dura-
tion of a moment, but because of the expression 'origin and
decay 'at the end of the teaching: ‘all conditioned things are
impermanent and subject to origin and decay.’

Being asked: “Do these things come and go more quickly
than mind ?” he rejects, because he does not see any things
which come and go more quickly than mind. Being asked
again, he assents in respect of that state of consciousness which
he considers to have lasted for a length of time. With regard
to the question: ’ Does any unit of consciousness last one’s
whole lifetime ?‘’ he denies it in all places excepting the Arupa
plane, because of the expression "the devas of air last up
to 80,000 aeons in life,‘’ but he assents in the case of those
who are in the Arupa plane.

“Does then the mind of the devas who have reached the
Arupa plane arise and cease moment by moment ?” is asked
. by the opponent. (The Sakaviidin) assents, because he fears
lest it would contradict the Suttas: “Subject to origin and decay,” and so forth.
He however maintains its duration through his own view.

The rest here is clear in meaning
The controversy about the duration of consciousness
is ended.

This pdf has the three pages from Points of Controversy from the translation by Aung and Davids and although much older is probably a clearer translation than the above one by Law.
kathavathu duration of consciousness.pdf (369.6 KB)

[RobertK]

https://suttacentral.net/mn10/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

observing the body as liable to originate, as liable to vanish, and as liable to both originate and vanish.

samudayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṁ viharati, vayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṁ viharati, samudayavayadhammānupassī vā kāyasmiṁ viharati.

[RobertK]

*Saṁyutta Nikāya
*Connected Discourses on the Six Sense Bases

35.93. The Dyad (2)

“Bhikkhus, consciousness comes to be in dependence on a dyad. And how, bhikkhus, does consciousness come to be in dependence on a dyad? In dependence on the eye and forms there arises eye-consciousness. The eye is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise; forms are impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. Thus this dyad is moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“Eye-consciousness is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of eye-consciousness is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, eye-consciousness has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

[RobertK]

https://suttacentral.net/dn15/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false
*

** DN 15 Ānanda, on the occasion when one experiences a pleasant feeling one does not, on that same occasion, experience a painful feeling or a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling; on that occasion one experiences only a pleasant feeling. On the occasion when one experiences a painful feeling one does not, on that same occasion, experience a pleasant feeling or a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling; on that occasion one experiences only a painful feeling. On the occasion when one experiences a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling one does not, on that same occasion, experience a pleasant feeling or a painful feeling; on that occasion one experiences only a neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling."*** -

[RobertK]

Saṁyutta Nikāya

• Connected Discourses on the Six Sense Bases

35.93. The Dyad (2)

“Bhikkhus, consciousness comes to be in dependence on a dyad. And how, bhikkhus, does consciousness come to be in dependence on a dyad? In dependence on the eye and forms there arises eye-consciousness. The eye is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise; forms are impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. Thus this dyad is moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“Eye-consciousness is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of eye-consciousness is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, eye-consciousness has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

“The meeting, the encounter, the concurrence of these three things is called eye-contact. Eye-contact too is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of eye-contact is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, eye-contact has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

“Contacted, bhikkhus, one feels, contacted one intends, contacted one perceives. Thus these things too are moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“In dependence on the ear and sounds there arises ear-consciousness … … In dependence on the mind and mental phenomena there arises mind-consciousness. The mind is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise; mental phenomena are impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. Thus this dyad is moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“Mind-consciousness is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of mind-consciousness is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, mind-consciousness has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

“The meeting, the encounter, the concurrence of these three things is called mind-contact. Mind-contact too is impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. The cause and condition for the arising of mind-contact is also impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise. When, bhikkhus, mind-contact has arisen in dependence on a condition that is impermanent, how could it be permanent?

“Contacted, bhikkhus, one feels, contacted one intends, contacted one perceives. Thus these things too are moving and tottering, impermanent, changing, becoming otherwise.

“It is in such a way, bhikkhus, that consciousness comes to be in dependence on a dyad.”

[RobertK]

“And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness? There is the case where feelings are known to the monk as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Perceptions are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness.

“And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents? There is the case where a monk remains focused on arising & falling away with reference to the five clinging-aggregates: ‘Such is form, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is feeling, such its origination, such its passing away. Such is perception, such its origination, such its passing away. Such are fabrications, such their origination, such their passing away. Such is consciousness, such its origination, such its disappearance.’ This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the ending of the effluents.
https://suttacentral.net/en/an4.41/4

[RobertK]

From the Abhdihamma Vibhanga:
The Book of Analysis p.115

Therein what is mind element? Immediately after the cessation
of the eye-consciousness-element that has arisen there arises con-
sciousness, mind, ideation, heart, lucence, mind, mind base,
controlling faculty of mind, consciousness, the aggregate of con-
sciousness; and, depending on the aforesaid, mind element.
Ear-consciousness-element. :P: Nose-consciousness-element. :P:
Tongue-consciousness-element. :P: **Immediately after the cessa- **
**tion of the body-consciousness-element that has arisen there arises **
consciousness, mind, ideation, heart, lucence, mind, mind base,
controlling faculty of mind, consciousness, the aggregate of
consciousness ; [89] and, depending on the aforesaid, mind element ;
also (at the time of) first advertence in all states there arises con-
sciousness, mind, ideation, heart, lucence, mind, mind base,
controlling faculty of mind, consciousness, the aggregate of con-
sciousness; and, depending on the aforesaid, mind element. **This is **
called mind element. (16)

Vibhanga 88: tattha katamad manodhatu? cakkhuviiidnadhatuya uppajjitva niruddhasamanantara uppajjati cittam mano mdnasam hadayam pandaram mano mandyatanam manindrivam viniidnam
viinadnakkhandho… , tajja manodhatu; sabbadhammesu va pana pathamasamannahdaro, ayam
vuccati manodhatu. (Cf. Dhs § 566).