I just read a post from Sujato that claims in the Visuddhimagga it is said that the 1st Jhāna “lasts for a mind moment”. I’m aware that supramundane Jhānas are said to last for a moment, but is it also the case that mundane Jhānas, at the point of absorption, also lasts for a moment according to the Visuddhimagga and commentaries? I’m posting this as I can’t find the passage Sujato is alluding to myself.
The context of his information biased towards EBT creating doubt in Theravāda sect and mixing Chinese and other Buddhisms together for what he feels is proper. Tell me if that is not his objective.
I wonder why this was brought up.
Was he telling people that the commentaries say this is acceptable?
Was he saying that this was a good standard?
Or was he talking about 5 mastery and how important that is. Was he explaining about pārājika 4 and ven mahamoggalāna’s corrupted 4th jhāna before he was an arahant?
When one first attains jhāna, yes it is possible that it can last for but a mind-moment. However, 5 mastery is essential. This is just the beginner., a little bit like riding a bike, “riding can be just for a moment” be in general, real riding a bike is to be able to go wherever you want for any reasonable distance (like a strong man who wants to walk here or there). The visuddhimagga also explains that too.
You can also read pārājika 4 and you will understand that the mula says it is possible to have corrupted Samādhi.
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This is from the Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha, transl. by Bodhi et al:
The sublime javanas for a beginner during the first (cognitive process of) absorption, and the direct-knowledge javanas always, run only once. Then comes subsidence into the life-continuum. (p. 176)
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Yes… for the beginner. actually when one actually has jhāna and realizes and feels confident to say he has jhāna, by then jhāna can occur many many consecutive mind moments.
There are only 2 cittas that can run consecutively repeatedly more than 7 mind moments. This is Bhavaṅga and Jhāna. That is why Jhāna is so powerful. It can run continuously for up to 7 days.
You can quote books and decide many things you want for yourself and listen to wrong teachers, without knowing abhidhamma and pass wrong judgements. It is good to bring up here with the intention of clarifying wrong teachers who are against Theravāda. I think we have covered all shadows with light that have been brought up.
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