Can someone ordain if they are registered for draft?

Hello,

Can someone ordain as a monk if they are registered for draft?

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Which country? If it’s the U.S., I don’t think that should be an issue. The U.S. requires men ages 18 to 25 to register, but the U.S. is unlikely to reinstitute the draft. The last time they did so was during the Vietnam War and the draft was very unpopular. Many refused to get drafted, some went to Canada. All were pardoned after the war.

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Yes… you can ordain. The question is only for active service and “desertion” while on contract. It is similar to being in debt. Not knowing fully what this meant was why I gave up 6 years and re-ordained. I didn’t fully explore this and during the time of my ordination the topic of “The Draft” came to mind. When I was 18, I resisted registering until I was threatened with prison. Then I registered.

During the ordination, in the heat of the moment, I logically concluded it would not count because of various reasons and since there were usa monks, it must not include the draft. However, a monk told me that it invalidated my pabbajja and therefore invalidated my upasampada. However, there was an investigation only a few years ago, and it is clear that the upasampada is valid. However, that investigation came 20 years too late and I had already given up and 6 years. They are gone. This would be my 24 vassa to complete (next week), but is only 18 now. I’m okay with that, but it is good to know now.

If there is a draft, and you are called and not a monk yet, then there can be issues. I had someone explore this for me in the usa. If you are over 26, you are considered too old and for them to call someone at age 30 (when I first ordained), the recruiter my friend spoke to said, “There would need to be an inferno for me to be called”.

I think someone who resisted a draft, would be considered a fugitive under another question. They are called “Draft Dodgers”.

Even being a monk, and getting called, I guess I would have some obligation to show up and then try to get exempted, but they might have some religious duty for me to perform. I’m not sure. Nor would I be very assuring to people who wanted the truth about their destinations on their death beds if they killed people.
“Father, will I go to Heaven?”
“Did you kill anyone?”
“Did you give dana?”
“Did you follow the 5 precepts?”

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Hello Venerable Sir. Thank you for answering. Would there be issues related to the vinaya or the government? Is there any rule that prevents someone who gets drafted but not a soldier yet from ordaining?

With wars happening, ordaining feels more necessary not just to renounce sensual pleasures but to protect one’s sila.

I think that if you are worried, you should be speaking with an army recruiter about laws and legalities.

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singaporean males have to serve army, but they ask for out from the government when they become monks. So do the same thing for whatever country you guys are in.

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Oh wow, you have quite the experience with this issue.

I am glad it all worked out.

Like I said earlier, I don’t think there will be another draft. But if you do ordain and get called to the draft after that, perhaps they could make you a military chaplain. I have heard that there are actual Buddhist chaplains in the military now. And then when your service is over, you would return to your monastery. In any event, once you hit 26 years of age, they won’t even call you up.

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I think that this could be a problem to ask “after the fact”. Mandatory service is different from mandatory registration for the draft. The whole purpose of the rules concerning being a fugitive or not fulfilling the debt would be to not use the robes to get out of it. You should check with the government first. You should refuse to hold a gun and tell them you cannot harm any living beings. As for the Singaporeans who do this, it is a valid ordination but “undesirable”.

There is an american monk. I think he is still a monk and alive. During the draft, he got called. He had his brother beat the “living daylights out of him” the night before he showed up for inspection. He was rejected :innocent:

There is a supposedly true story/song called Alice’s Restaurant by Arlo Guthrie, the son of Woody Guthrie who is considered the god of folk singing. Bob Dylan got his “accent” from visiting him in the hospital when Woody was ill and had slurred speech.

Well, I am not sure of the order of getting out of service. Whether it’s before or after they become a monk.

The thing is, once he is a monk, they are afraid to do things to him. However, before that stage, they can make a choice. Saying you want to be a monk to get out of it without intention or following through would also be wrong. It is similar to entering a country on an Education visa but not attending the school. In any case, the ordination is valid. If both the monks who ordained him and the monk himself were confident this was allowed and properly answered during the time of question answering, then there was no undesirable factor to the ordination.

You should read the origin of the story for where the questions come from.

I’m from Myanmar and the government enacted a conscription law that says men aged 18 to 35 can be drafted into the military. There are exceptions. Two of the exceptions are students who are studying and monks. I think if someone ordains before he gets drafted, it should be okay.

I live in New York though, so if I do get a green card before the age of 26, I would have to register.