# Can A Sotāpanna Attain Fruition Consciousness More Than Once? **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Created:** [May 14, 2022, 5:23am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277 "2022-05-14T05:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dhamma001](https://classicaltheravada.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ab097/32.png) [@Dhamma001](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/Dhamma001)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/21 "2022-05-16T03:50:09Z")
> [@bksubhuti](#): > > “Do you accept money directly or by envelopes?” There are two branches of Theravada Sasana in Myanmar: Sudhamma and Shwe Kyin ([Shwekyin](https://www.google.com/search?q=Shwe+Kyin+Sasana)). Sudhamma allows monks to handle money and it also allows scholar-monks eat dinner/supper. Shwekyin does not. The two have little argument. There are other branches of Theravada too. The monks in my previous reply were from Shwekyin Sasana. Pa-Auk Sayadaw is also from Shwekyin. ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 3:55am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/22 "2022-05-16T03:55:22Z")
I add some information on this from posts by Nina van Gorkom. Apparently the one who attains by means of dry insight is not able to keep reentering fruition, while the one who had mastery of jhana when initially attaining can. [https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/17896](https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/17896) Foundation Bulletin, translated from Thai. **Dhamma Issues, Ch 2, Fruition-attainment, no 1** **Fruition Attainment, Phala-samåpatti** Issue of analysis: _Can the ariyan who has not attained jhåna enter fruition_ _attainment, phala-samåpatti?_ The conclusion regarding the issue of analysis: The ariyan who has not attained [mundane] jhåna is not able to enter fruition attainment [phala-samåpatti] . The sources which support the conclusion of this issue: 1. Gradual Sayings, Book of the Sixes, Ch 1, § 9, Mahånåma. 2. Middle Length Sayings I, 44, Lesser Discourse of the Miscellany (Cúlavedallasutta) 3. Paramatthadípaní, Commentary to the Udåna, Khuddaka Nikåya. Commentary to Ch 1, Enlightenment. 4. Saddhammappakåsiní, Commentary to the Patisambhidåmagga, Path of Discrimination, Khuddaka Nikåya. 5. Visuddhimagga, Ch XXIII, Description of the Benefits in Developing Understanding, and Ch XI, Description of Concentration, Conclusion, XI, 120: The Benefits of Developing Concentration. 6. Paramattha Mañjúsa, Commentary to the Visuddhimagga (Mahå-tíka), explanation about the benefit of concentration. 7. Såratthadípaní, subcommentary to the Vinaya, about Vijjå, Knowledge. The sources which explain the reasons for this conclusion: 1. We read in the Gradual Sayings, Book of the Sixes, Ch 1, § 9, Mahånåma, about six kinds of ³everminding² (anussati). The Sutta states that Mahånåma, the Sakya asked the Buddha: ³Lord, the Ariyan disciple who has won the fruit (ågato phalo), grasped the message (viññåta-såsano), what life lives he in abundance ?² (2 ³Mahånåma, the Ariyan disciple who has won the fruit, grasped the message, lives this life in abundance: The Ariyan disciple, Mahånåma, is ever minding the Tathågata: ŒHe is the Exalted One, arahant, fully enlightened, perfected in knowledge and way of life, one well-gone, a knower of the worlds, none higher, a tamer of tamable men, a teacher, the awake among devas and men, the Exalted One!¹ Mahånåma, what time the Ariyan disiple minds the Tathågata, his heart is never overwhelmed by passion, never overwhelmed by hatred, never overwhelmed by infatuation; then, verily, is the way of his heart made straight because of the Tathågata. And with his heart¹s ways straightened, Mahånåma, the Ariyan disciple becomes zealous of the goal, zealous of Dhamma, wins the joy that is linked to Dhamma (3 ; and of his joy zest (píti) is born; when his mind is rapt in zest, his whole being becomes calm; calm in being, he experiences ease; and of him that dwells at ease the heart is composed. Mahånåma, of this Ariyan disciple it is said: Among uneven folk he lives evenly; among troubled folk he lives untroubled; with the ear for Dhamma won, he makes become the ever minding of the Buddha…²(4 Thus we see that the abiding (vihåra dhammas) of the ariyan disciple without jhåna-attainment are the six Recollections, not fruition attainment. **Footnotes** 1. When paññå has been developed to the degree that enlightenment can be attained, lokuttara cittas, supramundane cittas experiencing nibbåna arise. The magga-citta (path-consciousness), which is lokuttara kusala citta, directly experiences nibbåna. When the magga-citta has fallen away, it is immediately succeeded by its result, the phala-citta (fruition-consciousness), which is lokuttara vipåkacitta, also experiencing nibbåna. There are four stages of enlightenment and at each stage defilements are eradicated by the magga-citta until they are all eradicated at the fourth stage, the stage of the arahat. The magga-citta of a particular stage of enlightenment arises only once in the cycle of birth and death. However, the phala-citta can arise again later on during that life, if enlightenment has been attained with lokuttara jhånacittas (Visuddhimagga, Ch III-XII). Someone who has developed jhåna and acquired ³mastery² in jhåna (Visuddhimagga IV, 131) and also develops insight can attain enlightenment with lokuttara jhånacitta, lokuttara citta accompanied by jhåna-factors of one of the stages of jhåna. The phala-citta which is accompanied by jhåna-factors can arise many times again during that life, experiencing nibbåna. This attainment is called fruition-attainment, phala-samåpatti. _Fruition attainment, phala-samåpatti, has been explained in the_ _³Visuddhimagga², Ch XXIII, Description of the Benefits in Developing_ _Understanding (explaining who can enter fruition attainment and who cannot)._ _The text (Vis. XXIII, 6,7) stating: ³All ariyans can enter_ _fruition-attainment² can be misunderstood when we do not know the context._ \*_People may erroneously think that all ariyans can._ 1. He lives in abundance, in Pali: bahulam viharåti. He abides with six vihåra dhammas, six recollections: recollection of the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha, síla, the devas and liberality. 2. Attha–vedaÿ, dhamma-vedaÿ. According to the Commentary, veda, which can mean knowledge, is here píti-påmojjaÿ (rapture and delight) arising with respect to attha-kathå (explanation of the meaning) and påli, which means text. Attha is here translated as goal, but it can also mean: the meaning. 3. The same is said with regard to the other five recollections. With these six Recollections as meditation subjects, the ariyan can attain access concentration but not attainment concentration (appanå-samådhi) or jhåna. His unshakable confidence in the Triple Gem conditions calm and happiness. It is said that he lives in happiness, but, as we shall see, this is an abiding different from the ³peaceful abiding², arana vihåra, which is fruition-attainment. ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 3:57am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/23 "2022-05-16T03:57:11Z")
[https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/17959](https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/17959) **Dhamma Issues, Fruition Attainment 2** 2: The Visuddhimagga, Ch XXIII, Description of the Benefits in Developing Understanding (explaining who can enter fruition attainment and who cannot) states: ³All ariyans can enter fruition-attainment². This is a conclusion which refutes an argument of some teachers who had wrong view. They stated that the sotåpanna (streamwinner) and the sakadågåmí (once-returner) are not able to enter fruition-attainment, and that only the anågåmí (non-returner) and the arahat could enter fruition-attainment. They argued that only the anågåmí and the arahat could reach accomplishment in samådhi (concentration). However, even the ordinary person (who is not an ariyan) may reach accomplishment in samådhi, so that he may enter mundane jhåna-attainment, jhåna-samåpatti (5. Thus, all ariyans, namely, the sotåpanna, the sakadågåmí, the anågåmí and the arahat can enter fruition-attainment, provided they are able to attain jhåna. [however those ariyans who cannot attain mundane jhana also cannot reenter fruition attainment.] The Paramatthadípaní, Commentary to the Udåna, Khuddaka Nikåya, in the Commentary to Ch 1, Enlightenment explains the term vimutti sukha, the enjoyment of the happiness of freedom of the Buddha after his enlightenment. (6 We read in the ³Middle Length Sayings² (I, 44), ³The Lesser Discourse of the Miscellany² (Cúlavadallasutta) that the nun Dhammadinnå spoke with the layfollower Visåkha about the abiding in fruition-attainment, explaining cetovimutti, deliverance of mind (7. Thus, only the ariyan with jhåna-attainment can enter fruition-attainment. Footnotes: 5. Evenso, all ariyans who have accumulated the inclination to and the skill in the development of samatha, can attain jhåna. 6. See the Translation by P. Masefield, p. 58-62, ³But in the present case it is the Lord¹s liberation in terms of fruition that has nibbåna as its object that is implied, for which reason ³Experiencing the bliss of liberation (vimuttisukhapaìisaÿvedí) means: (he) was seated experiencing the bliss of liberation, the bliss associated with fruition-attainment²… The Buddha had attained all stages of rúpa-jhåna and arúpa-jhåna. 7. Ceto-vimutti refers to a person who has developed insight and samatha to the degree of jhåna. Dhammadinnå explains about the attainment of cessation of perception and feeling, which can be reached only by a person with jhåna attainment. ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/24 "2022-05-16T04:54:32Z")
[https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/18013](https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/18013) **Dhamma Issues, 2, Fruition Attainment, no 3**. translated by **nina van Gorkom** 1. The Saddhammappakåsiní, Commentary to the Paìisambhidåmagga, Path of Discrimination, Khuddaka Nikåya, explains that the ariyan who can enter fruition-attainment must have attained jhåna. We read in the Commentary to Ch XXXIII, Abiding without Conflict (Arana Vihåra, peaceful abiding) about the understanding of peaceful abiding (arana vihåra). It explains about the arana vihåra dhammas as the means to be without defilements which are like enemies or cause beings to cry and lament. It states that the ariyans who can enter fruition attainment must have attained jhåna; only then can they be intent upon fruition-attainment. As it is said: ³ Panítådhimutta, they are intent upon fruition attainment. (panítå means: excellent, superior, what does not cause agitation and leads to predominance (8; adhimutta means: to be intent upon, inclined to). The inclination and disposition to fruition-attainment is called paùítådhimutta. It is the inclination to fruition-attainment which is subtle and refined. Paùítådhimutta is here actually the prerequisite 9 for paññå which is intent upon fruition-attainment.² At another part we read, ³ In the explanation of the first jhåna etc., the Commentator assists in explaining in the same way the term panítådhimutta.² In another part in the Commentary, in the explanation of ³Understanding of Peaceful Abiding², arana vihåra ñåna, we read about the arahat entering into fruition-attainment: ²With the words pathamam jhånam, the first jhåna, he speaks about the attainment of jhåna (jhåna samåpatti) which is the object of vipassanå of someone wanting to enter fruition-attainment of the stage of the arahat.² Even the arahat who does not have the hindrances, when he wants to enter fruition-attainment, he must have calm of citta of the degree of jhåna, from the first stage of jhåna onwards, and this is arana vihåra, peaceful abiding. We read: ³The meaning of the words Œpathamena jhånena nívarane harati ti, arana vihåro¹, is as follows: it is called arana vihåra, peaceful abiding, because it removes the hindrances by the first jhåna. It is explained that the first jhåna is called peaceful abiding because the factors which constitute the first jhåna remove the hindrances (nívarane harati). The other words of the text also explain this in the same way. One should know that the first jhåna has been referred to as removing the hindrances because the first jhåna is opposed to the hindrances and this is said also with regard to the arahat who does not have them anymore.² We read further on: ²… **Jhåna attainment which is the foundation for** **vipassanå of fruition attainmen** t². This clearly shows that in order to enter fruition-attainment one must be able to attain jhåna. **footnotes:** 1. We read in the ³Path of Discrimination², Ch XXXIII, Abiding without conflict about the predominance of seeing: that contemplation of impermanence, dukkha and anattå is predominance of seeing. The Commentary explains that seeing here is insight knowledge. 2. Paññå accompanying jhånacitta. ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 4:57am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/25 "2022-05-16T04:57:24Z")
**nina van gorkom** 12/30/02 [#18072](https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/18072) **Dhamma Issues, 2, fruition-attainment, no. 4** The Commentary (of the Path of Discrimination) to the Chapter on ³Attainment of Cessation² (Nirodha Samåpatti, Ch XXXIV) explains three classifications of insight knowledge, vipassanå ñåna: ³There are three kinds of insight knowledge: insight as comprehension of formations (sankhåra parigganhanaka vipassanå 9) insight as fruition-attainment, phala-samåpatti vipassanå insight as cessation-attainment, nirodha-samåpatti vipassanå 10 These three kinds of vipassanå are explained as different: insight as comprehension of formations is paññå which understands conditioned dhammas, sankhåra dhammas, that is, nåma dhamma and rúpa dhamma; insight as fruition-attainment and insight as cessation attainment are degrees of insight knowledge which have as their aim to enter fruition-attainment and progressively cessation-attainment. For the latter two attainments it is necessary to be able to attain jhåna which is in conformity with those attainments.² 1. Lokuttara cittas have been classified by way of forty (according to the method of hundred and twentyone cittas), as different from the classification by way of eight (according to the method of eightynine cittas). They have been classified as forty in accordance with the levels of the five jhånas 11. The reason for this is that there are two kinds of ariyans: the ariyan who has lokuttara cittas accompanied by jhåna factors (of the different stages of jhåna) and who can therefore enter fruition-attainment, and the ariyan who has lokuttara cittas unaccompanied by jhåna factors and who can therefore not enter fruition-attainment. In what way is the ariyan who is a person with ³dry insight², sukkha vipassaka (without jhåna attainment), different from the ariyan who is able to attain jhåna, who is jhåna-låbhí (låbhí : possessing)? If the ariyan who is without jhåna attainment could enter fruition-attainment, he would be the same as the ariyan who is able to attain jhåna. There must be a difference between the ariyan with dry insight and the ariyan with jhåna attainment, who is jhåna låbhí. **footnotes:** 1. Pariganhati means to comprehend. This knowledge comprehends the conditioned realities, sankhåra dhammas as impermanent, dukkha, anattå. 2. Nirodha, cessation or extinction, is the temporary suspension of citta and cetasikas. Only anågåmís and arahats who have mastery of rúpa-jhånas and arúpa-jhånas can attain this. _Corrections and additions to Issue 2, no1:end of footnote 4: peaceful_ _abiding, arana vihara, which can lead to fruition-attainment._ _Add to footnote 8 (of no 3): We read in the same section of the ³Path of_ _Discrimination², § 448: ³The first jhåna is an abiding without conflict…²_ _and so on with all the stages of jhåna._ _Old footnote 9 is erased._ ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 4:59am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/26 "2022-05-16T04:59:07Z")
**nina van gorkom** 01/02/03 [#18208](https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/18208) **Dhamma Issues, 2, fruition-attainment, no. 5** All arahats abide by nature in the following three kinds of vipassanå, insight knowledge: the void abiding (suññata vihåra), the signless abiding (animitta vihåra) and the desireless abiding (appanihita vihåra)12. In the Commentary to the ³Path of Discrimination², to Chapter IX, Equanimity about Formations (sankhårupekkhåñåna), we read: ³With regard to the abiding in the three kinds of insight by the arahats who wish to abide in vipassanå, without fruition-attainment: they see the clinging to oneself as a danger, and they are inclined to the void abiding (suññatå vihåra, voidness of self); they see the decline(of conditioned dhammas) by equanimity about formations under the aspect of the void abiding. They see as a danger the characteristics of conditioned realities (sankhåranimitta), and they are inclined to the signless abiding (animitta vihåra); they see the decline (of conditioned dhammas) by equanimity about formations under the aspect of the signless abiding. They see as a danger the steadfastness of clinging, and they are inclined to the desireless abiding (appanihita vihåra); they see the decline (of conditioned dhammas) by equanimity about formations under the aspect of the desireless abiding. With regard to the arahats who are sukkhavipassaka, with ³dry² insight (insight alone), they have attained arahatship with lokuttara cittas without jhåna factors of the different stages of jhåna, but they have calm of citta since defilements have been completely eradicated. If they have accumulated the inclination to calm of the degree of jhånacitta, then they are able to enter fruition-attainment, which is ³abiding in bliss here now² (ditthadhamma sukhavihåra [13 ). With respect to this, we read in the Subcommentary (Tíka) to the Vinaya, the Såratthadípaní, in the section ³Through wisdom (vijjå)²: ³As to the words stating the benefit of citta which has a single object, thus, the benefit of citta with samådhi, concentration, these have been explained as follows: the benefit of ³abiding in bliss here now² (ditthadhamma sukhavihåra). The abiding in bliss (sukha) here now, the commentator describes this with the leading words that the citta has a single object and that the citta having a single object has that benefit. This refers to the arahat who has dry insight (sukkha vipassaka).²[14 **Footnotes:** 13. Dittha dhamma: dhammas which are seen (dittha), namely, this world, or ³here now². ³Abiding in bliss, here now², dittha dhamma sukha vihåra, has different meanings in different contexts. Here it refers to the abiding in the bliss of fruition-attainment. 14. Although an arahat is sukkha vipassaka, who has attained without having developed jhåna, after his enlightenment he may have the inclination to jhåna, and in that case he can enter fruition-attainment. Then he is ³abiding in bliss here now.² ---
**Author:** ![ekocare](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/ekocare/32/1116_2.png) [@ekocare](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/ekocare)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 6:13am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/27 "2022-05-16T06:13:20Z")
> [@bksubhuti](#): > > The person who attains to the sotāpanna level not only will attain once, but he can attain the fruition consciousness (phalasamāpattiṃ) many times. > [@Dhamma001](#): > > Does that mean he loses fruition again and again so that he can attain it again and again? > No, once attained the fruition, it just stays there. One does not lose it. One cannot attain something again after one attain it. > [@ekocare](#): > > The “wisdom of Sotāpanna” and the “phala samapatti of Sotāpanna” are different. … > The “wisdom of Sotāpanna” never falls down but the “Phala samapatti of Sotāpanna” falls down. He have to re-attain it if he needs peace. > [@Dhamma001](#): > > Only arahats can enter the state of phala samapatthi, in which they are permitted to dwell up to 15 days. Sotapanna do not have this kind of ability to dwell in nibbana. > [@bksubhuti](#): > > I think you are talking about _nirodhasamāpatti_ which is accessible to arahants and anāgāmīs which are able to sustain for 7 days. This is a different attainment from _phalasamāpatti_ for their respective level. Dear Bhante and Dhamma001, This issue is directly addressed in Atthakatha. > **_Khuddakanikāya (aṭṭhakathā)_ _»_ _Udāna-aṭṭhakathā_ _»_ _Bodhivaggo_** > Keci pana “sotāpannasakadāgāmino phalasamāpattiṃ na samāpajjanti, uparimā dveyeva samāpajjanti samādhismiṃ paripūrakāribhāvato”ti vadanti. Taṃ akāraṇaṃ puthujjanassāpi attanā paṭiladdhalokiyasamādhisamāpajjanato. Kiṃ vā ettha kāraṇacintāya? Vuttañhetaṃ paṭisambhidāyaṃ “Katamā dasa saṅkhārupekkhā vipassanāvasena uppajjanti (paṭi· ma· 1.57), katame dasa gotrabhudhammā vipassanāvasena uppajjantī”ti (paṭi· ma· 1.60) imesaṃ pañhānaṃ vissajjane sotāpattiphalasamāpattatthāya sakadāgāmiphalasamāpattatthāyāti tesampi ariyānaṃ phalasamāpattisamāpajjanaṃ vuttaṃ. Tasmā sabbepi ariyā yathāsakaṃ phalaṃ samāpajjantīti niṭṭhamettha gantabbaṃ. > > _ **Translation in brief:** _ > Some say that “sotapannas and sakadagamis do not attain Phalasamapatti, only the upper two attain because they are completed in Samadhi.” > **It is wrong.** … > Therefore it should be concluded that **all the Ariyas attain Phalasamapatti** according to their capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Dhamma001](https://classicaltheravada.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/3ab097/32.png) [@Dhamma001](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/Dhamma001)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 6:39am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/28 "2022-05-16T06:39:59Z")
Also add some more information. **[Dhammapada Verse 178](https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=178) Anathapindikaputtakala Vatthu** > The Buddha gave him a short stanza to learn by heart; at the same time he willed that the youth would not be able to memorize it. Thus, the youth had to repeat a single stanza many times, but because he had to repeat it so many times, in the end, he came to perceive the full meaning of the Dhamma and attained Sotapatti Fruition. **[Dhammapada Verse 18](https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=018) Sumanadevi Vatthu** > At the house of Anathapindika, the supervision was done, first by the eldest daughter, next by the second daughter and finally by Sumanadevi, the youngest daughter. The two elder sisters attained Sotapatti Fruition by listening to the Dhamma, while serving food to the bhikkhus. Sumanadevi did even better and she attained Sakadagami Fruition. > > Later, Sumanadevi fell ill and on her death-bed she asked for her father. Her father came, and she addressed her father as “younger brother” (_Kanittha bhatika_) and passed away soon after. **[Dhammapada Verse 124](https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=124) Kukkutamittanesada Vatthu** > After putting away their bows and arrows, they paid obeisance to the Buddha and the Buddha expounded the Dhamma to them. In the end, the hunter, his seven sons and seven daughters-in-law, all fifteen of them, attained Sotapatti Fruition. > > Then the Buddha returned to the monastery and told Thera Ananda and other bhikkhus about the hunter Kukkutamitta and his family attaining Sotapatti Fruition in the early part of the morning. The bhikkhus then asked the Buddha, “Venerable Sir, is the wife of the hunter who is a sotapanna, also not guilty of taking life, if she has been getting things like nets, bows and arrows for her husband when he goes out hunting?” To this question the Buddha answered, _“Bhikkhus, the sotapannas do not kill, they do not wish others to get killed. The wife of the hunter was only obeying her husband in getting things for him. Just as the hand that has no wound is not affected by poison, so also, because she has no intention to do evil she is not doing any evil.”_ > > Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows: > > **Verse 124** : If there is no wound on the hand, one may handle poison; poison does not affect one who has no wound; there can be no evil for one who has no evil intention. **[Dhammapada Verse 194](https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=194) Sambahulabhikkhu Vatthu** > Verse 194: Happy is the arising of a Buddha; happy is the exposition of the Ariya Dhamma; happy is the harmony amongst the Samgha; happy is the practice of those in harmony. > At the end of the discourse the five hundred bhikkhus attained arahatship. **[Dhammapada Verse 421](https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=421)** **Dhammadinna Theri** **Vatthu** > Verse 421: Him I call a brahmana, who does not cling to the past, future and present khandha aggregates and who is free from moral defilements and attachment. > > Visakha, hearing that Dhammadinna had returned, went to see her and asked her some questions. When he asked her about the first three _maggas_ she answered him; but when he asked her questions on the _arahatta magga_ and _phala_ she said, “O lay-disciple! This matter is out of your depth; if you want, you may go and ask the Buddha.” When Visakha asked the Buddha, the Buddha said, _“Dhammadinna has already answered your question. If you ask me I shall have to give the same answer.”_ Saying this the Buddha confirmed the fact that Dhammadinna had attained arahatship. **[Dhammapada Verse 25](https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=025) Culapanthaka Vatthu** > Mahapanthaka, who was then in charge of assigning the bhikkhus to meal invitations, left out Culapanthaka from the list. When Culapanthaka learnt about this he felt very much frustrated and decided that he would return to the life of a householder. Knowing his intention, the Buddha took him along and made him sit in front of the Gandhakuti hall. He then gave a clean piece of cloth to Culapanthaka and told him to sit there facing east and rub the piece of cloth. At the same time he was to repeat the word “_ **Rajoharanam** _”, which means “ **taking on impurity**.” The Buddha then went to the residence of Jivaka, accompanied by the bhikkhus. > > Meanwhile, **Culapanthaka went on rubbing the piece of cloth, all the time muttering the word** “_Rajoharanam_”. Very soon, the cloth became soiled. Seeing this change in the condition of the cloth, Culapanthaka came to realize the impermanent nature of all conditioned things. From the house of Jivaka, the Buddha through supernormal power learnt about the progress of Culapanthaka. He sent forth his radiance so that (to Culapanthaka) the Buddha appeared to be sitting in front of him, saying: > > _“It is not the piece of cloth alone that is made dirty by the dust; within oneself also there exist the dust of passion (raga), the dust of ill will (dosa), and the dust of ignorance (moha), i.e., the ignorance of the Four Noble Truths. Only by removing these could one achieve one’s goal and attain arahatship”._ Culapanthaka got the message and kept on meditating and in a short while attained arahatship, together with Analytical Insight. Thus, Culapanthaka ceased to be a dullard. I got help from google to find these stories. ---
**Author:** ![bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/bksubhuti/32/19_2.png) [@bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/bksubhuti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 6:59am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/29 "2022-05-16T06:59:00Z")
> [@ekocare](#): > > _ **Translation in brief:** _ > Some say that “sotapannas and sakadagamis do not attain Phalasamapatti, only the upper two attain because they are completed in Samadhi.” > **It is wrong.** … > Therefore it should be concluded that **all the Ariyas attain Phalasamapatti** according to their capabilities. I was worried for a second. Looks like vsm is correct. All can attain. I will see sayadawgyi today and ask him. ---
**Author:** ![ekocare](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/ekocare/32/1116_2.png) [@ekocare](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/ekocare)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/30 "2022-05-16T07:28:41Z")
> [@bksubhuti](#): > > I was worried for a second. Looks like vsm is correct. All can attain. I will see sayadawgyi today and ask him. Best one is the **Patisambhidhamagga reference** included in the given Atthakata passage which I have skipped in the above brief translation. > [@](#): > > _An attempt for a full translation:_ > **_Udāna-aṭṭhakathā_ _»_** > Some say that “sotapannas and sakadagamis do not attain Phalasamapatti, only the upper two attain because they are completed in Samadhi.” > > It is wrong because even the Puthujjanas attain worldly samapattis which have been achieved by them. > > What are the reasons therein? > It is said in the Patisambhidamagga, under the solving of the following questions, > **"What are the ten Sankharupekkhas come by Vipassana (paṭi· ma· 1.57),** > **What are the ten Gotrabhudhammas come by Vipassana (paṭi· ma· 1.60)",** > that > **"for the purpose of sotāpattiphalasamāpatti,** > **for the purpose of sakadāgāmiphalasamāpatti"** > as the attainings of those Ariyas too. > > Therefore it should be concluded that all the Ariyas attain Phalasamapatti according to their capabilities. ---
**Author:** ![bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/bksubhuti/32/19_2.png) [@bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/bksubhuti)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2022, 8:36am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/31 "2022-05-16T08:36:08Z")
These days we talk by video and sayadawgyi is quite old. However, if we understood each other, sayadawgyi agreed. It is necessary. The commentary in the above responce says it well. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias-Lentrein](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/matthias-lentrein/32/653_2.png) [@Matthias-Lentrein](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/Matthias-Lentrein)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 11:56am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/32 "2022-05-17T11:56:17Z")
If i understand this quote of Patisambidhāmagga and commentary, it means that the Ariyas who are sukkavipassanā, can attain phalasamāpatti, by going through their vipassanā knowledges such as sankhārupekkhā ñāna, and have some mastery of the attainments of phalasamāpatti, according to their abilities, especially their samādhi level. Do you understand also in this way? ---
**Author:** ![bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/bksubhuti/32/19_2.png) [@bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/bksubhuti)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2022, 12:17pm UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/33 "2022-05-17T12:17:56Z")
The issue came up today during my teaching of Tipitaka Sayadaw about cakkhupāla Thera who was a sukkhavipassanā pure vipassanā arahant. (This dhp story is a classic way to learn pali, and why not learn English this way too?) I had mentioned our discussion including the vsm quotes. At first the sayadaw said that there was no phalasamāpatti because of this, but changed his mind by the time evening juice came around. He said, (in English). "There are two types of phalasamāpatti. One with jhāna and one without (I think he is referring to khaṇikasamāpatti which is a searchable term). There are also items with upacāra and phala mentioned, but I cannot read well enough to decide if this is relevant. Update: khaṇikasamāpatti was atained by the Buddha. It is mentioned in the both Mahāvagga and the Dīghanikāya. ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:19am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/34 "2022-05-28T04:19:42Z")
Nina Van Gorkom [Dhamma Issues, 2, fruition-attainment, no. 6](https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/18244) **Dhamma Issues, 2, fruition-attainment, no. 6** 1. In the ³Visuddhimagga² Ch XXIII, 6, Description of the Benefits in Developing Understanding (what is fruition-attainment?), the meaning of phala-samåpatti, fruition-attainment, has been explained: ³It is absorption in the cessation (nirodha) in which the Noble Fruition (ariya phala) consists.² We should consider the following: how could an ariyan who is not able to attain jhåna, have calm of citta to the degree of absorption which has nibbåna (cessation) as object, after the path-consciousness and fruition-consciousness which arose at the moment of enlightenment, have fallen away? The ³Visuddhimagga² (XI, 120) in the Conclusion of the Explanation about Concentration (samådhi) (in ³The benefits of developing concentration²: the benefit of blissful abiding here now (ditthidhamma sukhavihåra) states: > ³For the development of absorption concentration provides the benefit of a > blissful abiding here now for the arahats with cankers destroyed who develop > concentration, thinking ŒWe shall attain (enter samåpatti) and dwell with > unified mind in bliss for a whole day¹. The development of attainment > concentration (appanå-samådhi) of those monks is said to have as benefit > blissful abiding here now…² This shows that a person who is able to enter fruition-attainment which is ³blissful abiding here now², must be able to attain jhåna. The Commentary to the Visuddhimagga, the ³Paramattha Mañjuså², the Mahå-tíka, Commentary to ³the Benefits of Concentration², clearly explains that in order to enter fruition-attainment, it is necessary to develop samådhi to the degree of attainment-concentration (appanå samådhi, which is jhåna), and not merely access concentration (upacåra samådhi). We read: > ³By the word samåpatti, attainment, used here, it has been made clear that > it is attainment-concentration, appanå-samådhi. It is true that one may also > take the words, citta is one-pointed, ekagga¹, for access concentration, > and therefore, to refute this (interpretation), the teachers thus said, > the development of attainment-concentration, appanå samådhi, (by them) ¹.² ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/35 "2022-05-28T04:22:39Z")
Nina Van Gorkom [https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/18337](https://groups.io/g/dsg/message/18337) **Dhamma Issues 2, Fruition Attainment, no 7** There are three kinds of attainments, samåpatti: jhåna-attainment, fruition-attainment and cessation-attainment (nirodha samåpatti [15) which are progressively more subtle and refined. The ordinary person is able to attain at his own level mundane jhåna. The ariyan who has attained enlightenment with lokuttara cittas accompanied by factors of different stages of jhåna is able to enter fruition-attainment with the phalacitta (fruition-consciousness) accompanied by the jhånafactors in conformity with the stage of jhåna he has attained. With regard to the non-returner and arahat, only those with the eight attainments (of rúpa-jhåna and arúpa-jhåna), can enter cessation-attainment. Therefore, only those who are able to attain jhåna can enter these different attainments, depending on the individual¹s accumulations. 1. We read in the Visuddhimagga Ch XXIII, the Benefits of the Development of Understanding, (XXIII, 11, how can one enter fruition-attainment?): > ²And if the Path he has arrived at was accompanied by the first jhåna > (pathama jhånika magga), his fruition will also be accompanied by the first > jhåna when it arises. If the Path is with the second jhåna, so will the > fruition. And so with the other jhånas.² **This shows that here only the person who is able to attain jhåna has been** **referred to. Thus, if the supramundane path-consciousness (lokuttara** **magga-citta) is accompanied by factors of one of the stages of jhåna he can** **enter fruition-attainment in accordance with the factors of that particular** **jhåna**. One may object that when for the ariyan without jhåna attainment the magga-citta arises there is a high degree of calm with absorption which can be compared to the calm of the first stage of jhåna. One might therefore conclude that afterwards he is likely to be able to enter fruition-attainment with phala-citta accompanied by factors of the first jhåna (pathama jhånika phala). However, we should consider the following: it is true that the magga-citta of the ariyan without jhåna-attainment has calm with absorption equal to the tranquillity of the first jhåna, but this is because nibbåna is the object at that moment. Since he is without jhåna attainment and he has lokuttara citta without jhåna factors, samådhi, concentration, has not sufficient strength so that the citta with strong absorption in the object of nibbåna could arise again after he attained enlightenment and became an ariyan. * * * Footnote 15. Nirodha samåpatti: the attainment of extinction, the temporary suspension of consciousness and all mental activity. ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2023, 4:10am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/36 "2023-10-09T04:10:02Z")
Even for an arahat who has the background to attain phala samapatti it is not always easy to attain it. The Commentary to the **Gaṇakamoggallāna Sutta** > Bodhi note 1027 While the preceding steps of practice are necessary measures for bhikkhus in training to attain arahantship, they are also beneficial to arahants in that they conduce to “a pleasant abiding here and now.” MA identifies this “abiding” with the attainment of the fruit of arahantship, and **explains that some arahants can enter fruition easily at any time while others must apply themselves diligently to the steps of practice to enter fruition.** Pali: here the Commentary gives an example of this. > Satisampajaññāya cā ti satisampajaññāhi samaṅgibhāvatthāya. Dve hi khīṇāsavā satatavihārī ca nosatatavihārī ca. Tattha satatavihārī yaṃkiñci kammaṃ katvāpi phalasamāpattiṃ samāpajjituṃ sakkoti, no satatavihārī pana appamattakepi kicce kiccappasuto hutvā phalasamāpattiṃ appetuṃ na sakkoti. > > Tatridaṃ vatthu – eko kira khīṇāsavatthero khīṇāsavasāmaṇeraṃ gahetvā araññavāsaṃ gato, tattha mahātherassa senāsanaṃ pattaṃ, sāmaṇerassa na pāpuṇāti, taṃ vitakkento thero ekadivasampi phalasamāpattiṃ appetuṃ nāsakkhi. Sāmaṇero pana temāsaṃ phalasamāpattiratiyā vītināmetvā ‘‘sappāyo, bhante, araññavāso jāto’’ti theraṃ pucchi. Thero ‘‘na jāto, āvuso’’ti āha. Iti yo evarūpo khīṇāsavo, so ime dhamme ādito paṭṭhāya āvajjitvāva samāpajjituṃ sakkhissatīti dassento ‘‘satisampajaññāya cā’’ti āha. In this case the arahant could not attain phala samapatti for a very long period. ---
**Author:** ![bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/bksubhuti/32/19_2.png) [@bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/bksubhuti)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2023, 4:13am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/37 "2023-10-09T04:13:28Z")
Something seems a bit off in this example of the arahant and what is possible by him. One needs to be careful about pulling something out that is an outlier and making it appear as if it were “normal”. The internet can do that. ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 4:13am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/38 "2023-10-10T04:13:32Z")
> [@bksubhuti](#): > > Something seems a bit off in this example of the arahant and what is possible by him. One needs to be careful about pulling something out that is an outlier and making it appear as if it were “normal”. The internet can do that Dear venerable I can’t see the problem with the example from the Commentary? Surely there are differences between arahats. Even those great ones with mastery of jhana were varied as to how quickly they could enter and exit jhana. The quote from bhikkhu Bodhi’s note was from his translation of the sutta and Commentary- I bought that as a complete volume. It is excellent but I did find the details about the example from the internet. It wpuld be great if he included more from the Commentary in all his notes. ---
**Author:** ![bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/bksubhuti/32/19_2.png) [@bksubhuti](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/bksubhuti)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 4:55am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/39 "2023-10-10T04:55:05Z")
It seems to imply that an arahant can worry. The Pali used is khīṇāsavatthero ---
**Author:** ![RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/user_avatar/classicaltheravada.org/robertk/32/1498_2.png) [@RobertK](https://classicaltheravada.org/u/RobertK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 6:36am UTC](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277/40 "2023-10-10T06:36:17Z")
Yes khīṇāsavatthero is a term for an arahat, one who has cut off the asava. So I think the text is saying this arahat had difficult attaining phalasampatti for the time. But I don’t think he had worry, rather he was commenting on this difficulty? [Previous page](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277.md?page=1) [Next page](https://classicaltheravada.org/t/can-a-sotapanna-attain-fruition-consciousness-more-than-once/277.md?page=3)