Brahma worlds and world system

General Theravada topics
1

AN3.80

''Yāvatā, ānanda, candimasūriyā pariharanti, disā bhanti virocanā, tāva sahassadhā loko. Tasmiṃ sahassadhā loke sahassaṃ candānaṃ, sahassaṃ sūriyānaṃ, sahassaṃ sinerupabbatarājānaṃ, sahassaṃ jambudīpānaṃ, sahassaṃ aparagoyānānaṃ, sahassaṃ uttarakurūnaṃ, sahassaṃ pubbavidehānaṃ, cattāri mahāsamuddasahassāni, cattāri mahārājasahassāni, sahassaṃ cātumahārājikānaṃ, sahassaṃ tāvatiṃsānaṃ, sahassaṃ yāmānaṃ, sahassaṃ tusitānaṃ, sahassaṃ nimmānaratīnaṃ, sahassaṃ paranimmitavasavattīnaṃ, sahassaṃ brahmalokānaṃ – ayaṃ vuccatānanda, sahassī cūḷanikā lokadhātu.

"Ānanda, as far as the moon and sun revolve, shining and illuminating the directions, so far extends a thousandfold world. In that thousandfold world, there are a thousand moons, a thousand suns, a thousand Sinerus, kings of mountains, a thousand Jambudīpas, a thousand Aparagoyānas, a thousand Uttarakurus, a thousand Pubbavidehas, four thousand great oceans, four thousand great kings, a thousand heavens of the Four Great Kings, a thousand Tāvatiṃsa heavens, a thousand Yāma heavens, a thousand Tusita heavens, a thousand Nimmānaratī heavens, a thousand Paranimmitavasavattī heavens, and a thousand Brahma-worlds. This, Ānanda, is called the thousandfold minor world-system.

The Brahma world here tied to world system does it refer to all 16 form Brahma realms or only to the 1st Jhāna level?

Because by the destruction by fire, 2nd Jhāna realm is not reached, so I think it stands to reason that the 2nd Jhāna realm onwards is not tied to one world system (defined as one sun and moon, likely means a solar system).

2

My understanding is that each world system consists of its own 31 realms, therefore it would refer to all Brahma realms in each world system.

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Does that make sense? DN 1 has the story of MahāBrahma in the 1st Jhāna realm is the first being to be reborn back into the world once the world re-expand after contracting.

Thus it does seems that 2nd Jhāna realm onwards are outside of the universe rather than stuck with a solar system.

4

So that might be exactly one world system. Also some Maha Brahmas preside over one world system, others over many. It makes sense due to the universe itself being infinite, but this could be debated endlessly.

Also who could really know this directly except for the Master is another big question.

I read something in the commentaries and consulted an AI a while back hence my answer, best would be to consult someone who knows the commentaries on this but this is what I gathered.

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5

The All-Embracing Net of Views: The Brahmajāla Sutta and Its Commentaries. Translated from the Pāli by Bhikkhu Bodhi.

p.67 B. Partial-Eternalism
(Ekaccasassatavāda): Views 5–8

38. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who are eternalists in regard to some things and non-eternalists in regard to other things, and who on four grounds proclaim the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?

39. "There comes a time, bhikkhus, when after the lapse of a long period this world contracts (disintegrates). While the world is contracting, beings for the most part are reborn in the Ābhassara Brahma-world.¹² There they dwell, mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the air, abiding in glory. And they continue thus for a long, long period of time.

40. "But sooner or later, bhikkhus, after the lapse of a long period, there comes a time when this world begins to expand once again. While the world is expanding, an empty palace of Brahma appears. Then a certain being, due to the exhaustion of his life span or the exhaustion of his merit, passes away from the Ābhassara plane and re-arises in the empty palace of Brahma. There he dwells, mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the air, abiding in glory. And he continues thus for a long, long period of time.

41. "Then, as a result of dwelling there all alone for so long a time, there arises in him dissatisfaction and agitation, and he yearns: ‘Oh, that other beings might come to this place!’ Just at that moment, due to the exhaustion of their life span or the exhaustion of their merit, certain other beings pass away from the Ābhassara plane and re-arise in the palace of Brahma, in companionship with him. There they dwell, mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the air, abiding in glory. And they continue thus for a long, long period of time.

[Note 12*. The “world of streaming radiance,” the sixth of the fifteen planes in the fine-material world (rūpaloka), the lowest order to be exempt from the onset of world destruction. The Brahma world mentioned later is destroyed by the conflagration, but reappears at an early stage.*]

[39. beings for the most part are reborn in the Ābhassara Brahma-world.]

Cy. “For the most part”: that is, except those who are reborn in the higher Brahma-worlds or in the immaterial realms or elsewhere.

Sub.Cy. “In the higher Brahma-worlds”: in the fine-material Brahma-worlds such as the Parittasubha plane. The destruction of the aeon by fire is intended here, since this occurs most frequently.

The word “or” at the end of the commentary’s remark signifies the alternative, “or in world systems other than those that are contracting.” For it is inconceivable that all beings in the planes of misery will then re-arise in the fine-material or immaterial spheres, since it is impossible for those with the longest life spans in the planes of misery to be reborn in the human world.

N.Sub.Cy. And they cannot be reborn from the plane of misery into the higher worlds without being first reborn in the human world. One with wrong views of fixed consequences⁶⁷ will not be released from hell when the world system contracts. It is said in the commentaries that he is then reborn on the other side of the world sphere.